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+--- Thread: Idol ratings drop -- Did they shoot themselves in the foot in shooting down Haley? (/thread-511.html)
RE: Idol ratings drop -- Did they shoot themselves in the foot in shooting down Haley? - john - 01-23-2012
I think it's fine for them to point out that a given song doesn't show off a singers range, for example, or suggest a contestant change it up if they are just choosing one type of song, say ballads. But criticism needs to include valid reasons and suggestions. Randy will call something Karaoke or say that "the song doesn't do anything for you" or "it was boring" but he doesn't usually back up his opinion with anything solid.
Song choice should never be the primary or sole focus of feedback as it was with Haley on a couple of occasions last year. Randy found Blue boring, so tell me about her performance of the song. He thought YAI sucked, but what about Haley's singing? On ES he did give her some specific criticism about her singing but then beat it into the ground. He came off like he was offended or something, I'm thinking WTF? It seemed like he was having a judging tantrum. That dude is just a crappy judge.
RE: Idol ratings drop -- Did they shoot themselves in the foot in shooting down Haley? - buzzenator - 01-24-2012
(01-23-2012, 07:10 PM)John Brown Wrote: If the judges criticize the contestant's song choices, to me they are just trying to unduly influence or bias the viewing audience against a particular contestant, as many people just automatically discount or even dismiss the performances instead of judging them on their merits, and the merits of each performance should be the sole criteria for judging the contestants. Let the audience decide if it is the wrong song choice without the influence of the judges.
I agree that it is pointless of the judges to be critiquing song choices. First of all, it will never be consistently invoked by the judges as we saw with Haley vs the Country Kids & Durbin. How ridiculous was the criticism of song choice for Haley singing 'You and I', which the hired mentor of Idol, Jimmy Iovine, had pushed for Haley to do. Not only did he initiate the choice but lauds her for "just lacing it" in front of the audience. So now we are lead to believe by JLo & Randy that this was a huge mistake by Haley, even though we all heard and the audience all heard her do an excellent cover of what became a huge hit for Gaga. So much for poor song choice, which time has revealed how inept JLo's & Randy's comments were, but the damage was done unfairly to Haley.
Secondly, this criticism is really only a smoke screen, initiated by the producers (Uncle Nigel), for directing the audience to think there is something wrong with the contestant (as John stated), as if they don't know what type of artist they are. In Haley's case this was used time and again as a means to discredit her in the eyes of some audience members...in an attempt to direct more votes towards the outcome TPTB desired.
Thirdly, how can a contestant be held responsible for song choices that are approved by Idol for the current weeks' theme? If the song should not be performed, Idol should not approve it in advance and then allow the judges to back door the contestant. The prime example of this was, according to Nigel, 'Earth Song' by Haley. She picks an inspirational song which has to be approved by Idol and performs the song only to be criticized by the judges for song choice. Nigel says after the fact that the judges didn't think anyone should do a Michael Jackson song. How is it that no one could get that message to Haley when she picked the song or before the dress rehearsal viewed by the judges or before the live performance? It was this unfair criticism that finally caused Haley to stand-up to Randy's tirade with "I felt it" and "I didn't know I should have changed that" (adding runs at the end?). Randy really lost it that night and was exposed like never before for being the "poser" that he really is, as he just made it up on the fly...like during Haley's audition, when he said "I think you've really improved from last year".
RE: Idol ratings drop -- Did they shoot themselves in the foot in shooting down Haley? - john - 01-24-2012
(01-24-2012, 09:30 AM)buzzenator Wrote: [quote='John Brown' pid='2447' dateline='1327367425']
... The prime example of this was, according to Nigel, 'Earth Song' by Haley. She picks an inspirational song which has to be approved by Idol and performs the song only to be criticized by the judges for song choice. Nigel says after the fact that the judges didn't think anyone should do a Michael Jackson song. ...
A totally arbitrary rule. With that logic I should be offended that anyone every sang a Beatles song. On the other hand, songs by He-who-cannot-be-sang were fine with Simon and his buddies over at X Factor. They even devoted one show to his songs.
As with YAI there are differences of opinion on what is a good song. Criticism of YAI was ridiculous, since many like it (obviously Jimmy did) and Haley did lace it (it was a good choice for her voice). On the other hand I thought some of Scotty's choices were horrible. They picked on song choice because they could, obviously her singing of the song "set the bar."
RE: Idol ratings drop -- Did they shoot themselves in the foot in shooting down Haley? - cherelann - 01-24-2012
For all of us who view the idol blogs, we seem to be aware of the judging inconsistencies that occur so frequently. The average viewer who just tunes for the entertainment is probably less aware of all the manipulation. This could be the end of AI if they continue to be unfair in their judging with Haley as a prime example.
I suppose when you get obscence amounts of money for doing this job it would be difficult to tell TPTB to kiss off. But how much is your integrity worth? I guess it becomes unimportant when you have millions...
RE: Idol ratings drop -- Did they shoot themselves in the foot in shooting down Haley? - My Alter Ego - 01-24-2012
(01-24-2012, 07:00 PM)cherelann Wrote: For all of us who view the idol blogs, we seem to be aware of the judging inconsistencies that occur so frequently. The average viewer who just tunes for the entertainment is probably less aware of all the manipulation. This could be the end of AI if they continue to be unfair in their judging with Haley as a prime example.
I suppose when you get obscence amounts of money for doing this job it would be difficult to tell TPTB to kiss off. But how much is your integrity worth? I guess it becomes unimportant when you have millions...
Integrity??? That presumes that the individuals in question actually had integrity. Neither R.J. nor J.L. strike me as having that quality.
RE: Idol ratings drop -- Did they shoot themselves in the foot in shooting down Haley? - Miguel - 01-24-2012
buzzenator Wrote:It was this unfair criticism that finally caused Haley to stand-up to Randy's tirade
She's a smart girl. She knew he was trying to undermine her and she was likely going home if she let his misstatements stand. Even after her corrections, there were no guarantees as her haters saw it as another example of her "bad attitude." Randy drove people to support her when he repeated his criticism in a shout and minutes later declared everyone tied for first but Haley. He later had the gall to cite this as an example of how they helped Haley.
(01-24-2012, 07:00 PM)cherelann Wrote: The average viewer who just tunes for the entertainment is probably less aware of all the manipulation.
I agree, but it was so blatant with Haley last year many more people became aware of it than before. Even mainstream publications made note of how every contestant was treated with kid gloves but Haley. So I expect Idol to take note of the complaints and have the judges provide more substantive comments about everyone this year.
RE: Idol ratings drop -- Did they shoot themselves in the foot in shooting down Haley? - My Alter Ego - 01-24-2012
(01-24-2012, 07:32 PM)Miguel Wrote: So I expect Idol to take note of the complaints and have the judges provide more substantive comments about everyone this year.
Hmmm -- I do think that J-Lo is capable of that. Last year, on occasion, we heard examples. However, Steven would have to remain awake -- and use language that's acceptable for a family show. And Randy would need to be able to put a few words together that made sense and had substance.
Sounds like the future of AI holds more scripts -- different scripts, mind you, but still scripts.
RE: Idol ratings drop -- Did they shoot themselves in the foot in shooting down Haley? - john - 01-24-2012
(01-24-2012, 07:51 PM)My Alter Ego Wrote: However, Steven would have to remain awake -- and use language that's acceptable for a family show. And Randy would need to be able to put a few words together that made sense and had substance.
That does seem like a stretch. On the other hand, J-Lo could become the judge with some credibility and respect if she worked at it.
RE: Idol ratings drop -- Did they shoot themselves in the foot in shooting down Haley? - cherelann - 01-24-2012
I do have to given Steven props, though, for coming to Haley's defense on several ocassions. My favorite quote, not verbatim, "If I agreed with you, Randy, then we'd both be wrong."
RE: Idol ratings drop -- Did they shoot themselves in the foot in shooting down Haley? - buzzenator - 01-25-2012
(01-24-2012, 11:34 PM)cherelann Wrote: I do have to given Steven props, though, for coming to Haley's defense on several ocassions. My favorite quote, not verbatim, "If I agreed with you, Randy, then we'd both be wrong."
Yes, from her 'Fallin' performance. This is where Randy starts the whole "not rooting for Haley" thing. Since it was the Top 24 night, if Jlo had not sided with Steven things might have been different for Haley. Although, Steven probably would have chosen her for a wildcard if she had not made the Top 10.
I'm assuming your picture is the real deal of Cherelann (nice picture)...which is pretty cool in the age of anonymous posting, and is a good fit for the real deal...Haley Reinhart.
