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that which shall not be named - Tom22 - 04-30-2013
Ok... well , to avoid to much beating, I won't name the song I've expressed my love for that universally attracts almost contempt elsewhere .....
But, I'm sort of curious if you all see a connection between the emotions of that one that I like, and these two below that to me have very similar sentiments and journey implied in them....
.. and in my mind.. have a haunting past of some loved and lost implied end in a sort of jaunty/heroic acceptance to move forward optimistically despite the memory for lack of better words.
I prefer the versions that start a bit more somber than that one but it was easy to link and I liked the lyrics translated which were rather dark even as I find the song headily uplifting at the end.
I definitely put those two somewhere in my top few hundred melodies I love. Even Bobby Darin's cheesiest version carries the underlying sweep of sentiment from post-war France.... the cheese can't distract me (there is a pun in there)... cheesy "under the sea" words aren't as cheesy to me as I tend to take them allegorically(and some how "under the sea" sounds more sophisticated with bing singing it than Bobby singing the english translation....but my mind gets past that). I think that take as much meaning from what the melody says to me as the words (I can enjoy the songs equally well sung in languages that I don't understand... but the singer pronouncing words, not just scatting is important as words come of the tongue with their own emotions.
I can hear the hurt in the past in both of the songs and and almost willed rakishness to be cheerful forward with the memory of sorrow. I wonder if other people here these two melodies that way without hearing a lyric.
I'm curious people find the two above very similar to each other ?
(or(cringe) at all similar to the odd one I went on and on about )
One thought.
I'm thinking that a complex emotion like "Nostalgia" can be expressed with words sung.. even if those words are "scrambled eggs" and the melody is apt for it. A person playing a musical instrument could also evoke the emotion of nostalgia by how they attacked notes but a midi type even tone sound notes played by a computer could probably not.
But.. another thought.
Do all people treasure the feeling of nostalgia equally ?
RE: that which shall not be named - Tusk - 04-30-2013
IMO nonsensical/cheesy/ allegorical/ outdated lyrics don't necessarily detract from the song.
I'm an unabashed ABBA fan, so I can't go around thumbing my nose down on that subject.
Then again, English is their second language, after all
Ultimately, and obviously, it's all subjective. It's similar to looking at the stars or cloud formations, your brain's need to understand patterns draws from your reservoir of experiences gives meaning to the objects you see.
Music is the audio equivalent, anthropomorphism for the ears, every song has individual meaning to each listener.
RE: that which shall not be named - Tom22 - 04-30-2013
Good deal Tusk. !
The "I do I do I do" actualy makes me tear up a bit ... it has got some of that sort of wide heroic-hope feel on top of something poignant that gets me. It wouldn't have come to mind but its been used many many times in movie scenes to evoke a certain nostalgia and innocence I think. The other two are cheerful but don't hit me (as much personally I mean) as being about big human things. (now If you push me, I could name a few important emotions to them though lol... I'd need to be in the mood to hear them more than them instantly taking me there though)
I know everyone feels things differently.. but, I can't help being curious of what people feel beyond the "I love it" . I won't pry it out of people but I really like it when people good with adjectives and analogies try sometimes. The best art and music critics have a knack for putting words to such things.
RE: that which shall not be named - Tusk - 04-30-2013
(04-30-2013, 01:01 AM)Tom22 Wrote: But.. another thought.
Do all people treasure the feeling of nostalgia equally ?
MAE and I occasionally discuss it, otherwise known as Musical Memory Markers, that 'Trigger Melody', the one that causes a physical reaction, that song that recalls a strong memory or emotion.....recalling 'simpler' times
In many ways that's who ABBA were for me. Didn't happen in the US, but they were pretty huge and omnipresent in the UK and Europe, so I have a sentimental attachment to them as well as enjoying the vocals of AnniFrid and Agnetha
BTW if you want heart wrenching melancholy of a parent, here's an ABBA classic that's really not known much in the US. It was written by Bjorn about his and Agnetha's daughter, Linda, growing up before his eyes.. Beautifully sung by his wife Agnetha
Slipping Through My Fingers
It was a maturing of their lyrical and musical evolution and Bjorn drew heavily from his experiences
They (Ulvaeus and Andersson) collaborated with Tim Rice for the musical "Chess" and produced this song which also charted in the UK
"I Know Him So Well"
"Fernando" was a song about an imaginary soldier of an imaginary war, there is a sense of hope for a rebellion, a defeating the odds..... It has a quality about it that is heroic too
Quite a departure from "Dancing Queen" or "Dum Dum Diddle"
RE: that which shall not be named - Tom22 - 04-30-2013
Tusk.. I havn't replied because I can't do that first one "Slipping through my fingers" justice yet.
RE the memory triggers, I'm trying to figure out how to talk about the difference between associative feelings triggered by a song and innate feelings the music conveys in any language to people in different life experiences and even cultures. I think I'll listen to more of Bernstein lectures first. One thing that comes to mind is that the chorus has a sound of the pet emotional higher pitched voice a mother takes in conversing intimately with a young child.. not quite "baby talk" but sort of an attempt to inspire excitement and praise/esteem/joy in a child in their 3 to 7 year old period.