James, Haley and whoever

[Outcast]

It's sort of like some of the comments I saw from James' Fans about Haley. I do believe some of them like Haley's potential, but they are entertained by a different type of performane, more activity, more energy, bang for their buck. So what Haliens may see as nuance and adorkable, they may see as boring and self absorbed, or not even trying. From each perspective and expectation, everyone draws their opinion, so I try to not engage in their critique knowing what they expect as entertainment, because I can enjoy both high energy stadium rock as well as 'jazz-cool' nuance in a club

As a fan of hard rock and heavy metal that Plant and Halford were incredible singers doesn't matter as much to me as the fact that they friggin rock!

I enjoy nuance, sophistication, restraint/control, ect. but IMO it's not necessary for hard rock/heavy metal, as that genre is performance oriented not vocal oriented. Someone tells me they're a fan of beautiful pitch perfect vocals with eloquent phrasing and sophisticated delivery I tell them to go an opera or Broadway show, rock is for people who wanna f*cking rawwkkkkk!!!!!!!

I don't associated things like nuance, restraint/control and sophistication with hard rock/heavy metal and neither does James. In his own words he describes his interpretation of what his genre is about:

Besides, Durbin said a sold-out concert is all a rock star needs to reach a natural high.

Infatuated with performing since he was 8 years old, Durbin said the freedom behind rock music, mixed with the crowd and adrenaline, provides a complete feeling of satisfaction.

“Rock isn’t safe,” he said. “It isn’t perfect. It’s sloppy. You can play any version of a rock song and make it completely your own. There’s a freedom to be you and be who you want to be.”

http://lubbockonline.com/go/2012-04-19/j...Qcfsr9hCAo

James can demonstrate plenty of nuance, blah, blah, if he wants to, I've seen him do it in many acoustic performances, but when he's onstage he wants to feel totally free. Free to jump up and down like an idiot playing air guitar, free to break the rules (eg: purposefully mispronounce lyrics), free to tell some arrogant wise ass who mocks him to STFU (yes it's happened before). James has been performing in his local hard rock/metal scene since he was 15 years old, he knows what he's doing.

This is the kind of performer James is, very different to Haley who is more sophisticated, sultry and elegant. But both are brilliant at what they do and both delivery styles suit the music they perform. Same with Casey who's basically a modern day hippie (hipster) and who's music and image caters to that crowd.

I missed Casey's show, are there any vids on the tube yet?

[Tusk]

Unfortunately it looks like it might not get posted . Would have been fun to hear Casey sing, "Tusk is in the house", again.

James and Lauren were who drew me into S10 to begin with (@ the time, Lauren showed some rock 'potential' from her audition, singing Aerosmith, IMO.) So I was looking to back a couple of 'rockers' that year.

Having seen Eddie Van Halen, Michael Schenker, Judas Priest (3 times), Ted Nugent (before he became such a nut case), Pink Floyd (twice), Boston (twice) Aerosmith and Motley Crue among others I certainly can appreciate the guttural/heavier side of music. So it shows the impact Haley has had on me for me to be so fully 'all in' on the ride she has taken me to the point I attended a Jazz show in NY@Carnegie. Especially that I had not really listened to jazz before, beyond Steely Dan (I saw twice) or Boz Skaggs.

That's why it irks me whenever an item about Haley appears @ MJS that, inevitably, some 'James' fans will get on to post their usual dissertation on why Haley didn't 'make it'/bores them/doesn't know how to perform (some even expressing the disingenuous statement that, they "like Haley, but..." then go into why they DON'T 'like' her.) The tenor of their posts being more of ridicule than objective, constructive critique, as if Haley has purposely done something to insult them. It's gotten to the point where I don't even feel like posting on James' threads/posts any more, not because of anything James has done, more that interaction with some of his fans (@MJS, at least), feels, figuratively, dirty. Perhaps an over reaction on my part, and doesn't happen as often as I perceive, maybe that I also like James, I'm a little more sensitive to the criticism from some of his fans.

Of course, I don't speak about all of James' fans. A small group, like yourself and a couple of others, like me, can compartmentalise the talent and enjoy it for it's essence and understand that each genre has it's unique quality that offers differing musical perspective, some requiring energy while others take a more nuanced approach. Did they really expect Haley to jump around the stage shooting pyro while performing Miles Davis' jazz in Vegas?

Anywho, there was a line used by the Monty Python lads that applies, "I may not know much about art, but I know what I like". To my ears, I gravitate to the music and performer who stirs my soul, fills me with elation, captures my imagination...makes me feel regardless of the genre.

Bottom line, I have found myself excited about music and listening to music again, and a large part of the reason is Haley, Casey, and yes, even James.

[Outcast]

James, Casey, Haley and Naima (in that order) were my S10 top 4 and I love and support all of them. I have Haley and Casey's albums in addition to James' album. I'm also not afraid to criticize any of them. Haley I think has fallen a little bit as a performer since Idol while James and Casey have grown. That however isn't her fault as she didn't get the opportunity to do enough full band gigs. Now that she's getting out more she'll improve, I think 2013 is gonna be a better year for her.

James' fans at MJ's primary motivation for their harsh criticism is that Haley still gets lauded there for her Idol performances while James' unique achievements in the real world continue to be ignored. I dunno why they care so much about the Idol sites, it's the rock sites that matter. James was a very unusual Idol contestant and I'm convinced the majority of "Idol bubble" folk just don't get him or his style, Idol is after all a "pop show".

[Tusk]

James' fans at MJ's primary motivation for their harsh criticism is that Haley still gets lauded there for her Idol performances while James' unique achievements in the real world continue to be ignored. I dunno why they care so much about the Idol sites, it's the rock sites that matter. James was a very unusual Idol contestant and I'm convinced the majority of "Idol bubble" folk just don't get him or his style, Idol is after all a "pop show".

But don't they see? The Rock/Metal genre and community would not look upon that kind of accolade as being 'cool', necessarily. James has worked hard to dig himself out of the Idol "baggage" that is anathema to the rock community, and making his own way in Rock... Do they need validation from an Idol blog that badly? From an outside point of view, the genre is about being aggressive, apart, non 'establishment', it is the Metal Fan that is able to recognise 'nuance', technique and skill in music others might consider "noise"....

I'm not sure that getting Idol praise from a blog is what a Metal fan would necessarily be impressed with.

The way I look at it, is it not enough that James has exceeded maybe his expectations at this stage? After a rough start, he seems to be doing fairly well especially because he's had all that performance/song writing/touring/producing experience under his belt. He has proved all the naysayers wrong and doing his own thing.

So instead of reveling on what James' has accomplished, the album sales he achieved, they would rather focus on a glowing critique of a Haley performance who would probably wish she could have sold or toured as much as James.

So Haley gets acclaimed?....would they prefer James and Haley switch outcomes? Have James get the critical acclaim for performance but move so few albums, get no album support or tour, that he is dropped from the label before one year is up?

Would they prefer to suffer that and then watch Haley get James' sales, Haley growing new fans as her touring experience increases?

I'd take James' post Idol album outcome over Haley's any day.

---

Bluesman, I think you are misinterpreting what Outcast is saying, that because Haley hasn't been 'allowed' the touring experience, experience especially with her band, she hasn't been able to grow the way she is capable of. They haven't had time to gel. Even you can't deny that.

James and Casey have been touring, touring and more touring. They can't help but improve. These are not opinions these are facts, the more you do something, especially play together as a band, the better you get.

That, IMO, is a fair criticism. As Outcast said, we should look forward to 2013 as hopefully the touring experience will begin in earnest for Haley, and she will gain the experience with her band she should have gained last year.

[midnightblues]

In my opinion James is an outstanding singer I really like his voice he has the pipes, and he also has high range velocity. The boy and his act are stuck back in the 80s there is nothing original about him jumping around stage it's been done before by so many big hair metal bands. Producers and record companies are looking for unique acts original acts and that holds a lot of water. When I saw him on Idol I was thinking his acting has all been done by some other artist and there's nothing new about it.

[Tusk]

Producers and record companies are looking for unique acts original acts and that holds a lot of water.

That's not what I've seen...'cookie cutter' comes to mind with a lot of pop acts that are big....
Ever heard "looking for the next 'Bieber'"?

The boy and his act are stuck back in the 80s there is nothing original about him jumping around stage it's been done before by so many big hair metal bands

As far as James' performance style, remember when the NY Times critic made this glib comment about Haley @ Carnegie?

And speaking of “Idol,” here too was Haley Reinhart, belting the blues in her precocious-child voice, and warbling “God Bless the Child” in a glib evocation of Billie Holiday, as seen on TV.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/10/arts/m....html?_r=0

Every artist draws from their influences, so if you say that about James' performance style, it's not unlike the critic mocking Haley for her 'evocation' of one of her Idols, and Billy Holiday was decades before Hair bands.

[midnightblues]

James' fans at MJ's primary motivation for their harsh criticism is that Haley still gets lauded there for her Idol performances while James' unique achievements in the real world continue to be ignored. I dunno why they care so much about the Idol sites, it's the rock sites that matter. James was a very unusual Idol contestant and I'm convinced the majority of "Idol bubble" folk just don't get him or his style, Idol is after all a "pop show".

But don't they see? The Rock/Metal genre and community would not look upon that kind of accolade as being 'cool', necessarily. James has worked hard to dig himself out of the Idol "baggage" that is anathema to the rock community, and making his own way in Rock... Do they need validation from an Idol blog that badly? From an outside point of view, the genre is about being aggressive, apart, non 'establishment', it is the Metal Fan that is able to recognise 'nuance', technique and skill in music others might consider "noise"....

I'm not sure that getting Idol praise from a blog is necessarily what a Metal fan would necessarily be impressed with.

The way I look at it, is it not enough that James has exceeded maybe his expectations at this stage? After a rough start, he seems to be doing fairly well especially because he's had all that performance/song writing/touring/producing experience under his belt. He has proved all the naysayers wrong and doing his own thing.

So instead of reveling on what James' has accomplished, the album sales he achieved, they would rather focus on a glowing critique of a Haley performance who would probably wish she could have sold or toured as much as James.

So Haley gets acclaimed?....would they prefer James and Haley switch outcomes? Have James get the critical acclaim for performance but move so few albums, get no album support or tour, that he is dropped from the label before one year is up?

Would they prefer to suffer that and then watch Haley get James' sales, Haley growing new fans as her touring experience increases?

I'd take James' post Idol album outcome over Haley's any day.

---

Bluesman, I think you are misinterpreting what Outcast is saying, that because Haley hasn't been 'allowed' the touring experience, experience especially with her band, she hasn't been able to grow the way she is capable of. They haven't had time to gel. Even you can't deny that.

James and Casey have been touring, touring and more touring. They can't help but improve. These are not opinions these are facts, the more you do something, especially play together as a band, the better you get.

That, IMO, is a fair criticism. As Outcast said, we should look forward to 2013 as hopefully the touring experience will begin in earnest for Haley, and she will gain the experience with her band she should have gained last year.

How many times has Hales sang with a full band? a few It has bin John courtney and keth. ANd I think she will blossom as a singer, but with what musicans will she have? a full band , or just a GuitarIMO she can do well in any musical situation

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sighhh This is IMO and there are Valid points when you are in the lime light there are many eyes upon you, some see good and some see distructive criticism. Every artist gets jammed up. There all under scrutiny, Even the Hales

[Tusk]

How many times has Hales sang with a full band? a few It has bin John courtney and keth. ANd I think she will blossom as a singer, but with what musicans will she have? a full band , or just a GuitarIMO she can do well in any musical situation

---

sighhh

So, Haley doesn't need to improve by gaining experience touring with her band because she's complete as is? To continue playing in small bars with one or two of her band? I don't believe that's where Haley's goals for herself end. The point is to grow a career, not stay as you are...

All we're saying is she needs touring experience (that she didn't get last year), and if she's going to stay with the same band, they can only improve by playing more together.... I don't get what you don't get....

[Tusk]

Bottom Line, James and Casey's fans have been able to see them perform live, their ability to entertain give value so that people want to see them live. It sometimes feels like the same Haliens have seen Haley live, seemingly most of her fans only know her through the youtube vids and AI, and the opportunity is not as great to see her live. It's been said again and again how Haley MUST be experienced live... I just want more of her fans to get that opportunity by seeing her on tour.

Who can argue with a tour across the US so more than the same handful (a very BIG hand ) of us can see her Live? That's all I'm hoping for her in 2013

[midnightblues]

I can agree on that. My day will come I am prepared to take videos and high-end photographs. I got the equipment to do it I just don't know how to post it. Maybe when I move back to LA and see her on a more consistent basis and then I'll be able to appreciate what everybody is saying about how dynamic and stunning she is to see in person. She's pretty awesome looking and sounding just on YouTube I can only imagine sitting 5 feet from her getting blown away by her voice and her looks which at this point is undisputable.