One of Haley's unreleased tracks is on Christina Grimmie's new album

[rmd1064]

That is great news that another artist has recorded one of Haley's songs as she was a cowriter. That is exposure and $$$ for Haley. I downloaded Christina's song as my little bit of help. It was also nice that Christina gave a shout out on Twitter to Haley.

I heard the unreleased track awhile ago and was not a big fan of that song--too poppy, modern or something. However, that is probably the type of song that sells these days. Listening to it now, Haley just does a killer version compared to Christina. She has so many colors in her voice, such a marvelous gift. Christina does a good job, but Haley continues to amaze me....on an unreleased track!

I also agree that song would be difficult to sing live a lot, but it would be cool if Haley did it once or twice, especially if it somehow got airplay..

[john]

I was glad to see Christina acknowledge Haley. It sort of satisfies or at least diffuses the concerns expressed and generates some good will. Ms. Grimmie is no doubt quite savvy to the ways of the web. And I bought my copy of the song from iTunes.

When I listened to the live version my first thought was about how much this song really needs solid background vocals.

[Tusk]

The "Get yourself together" BG vocals really drives the song, evidenced in the Stageit performance, without them, the song loses momentum. Both the single and the stageit, to me, it really sounds like she's a micro beat behind. I could be wrong

[Tom22]

I was glad to see Christina acknowledge Haley. It sort of satisfies or at least diffuses the concerns expressed and generates some good will. Ms. Grimmie is no doubt quite savvy to the ways of the web. And I bought my copy of the song from iTunes.

When I listened to the live version my first thought was about how much this song really needs solid background vocals.

haha Yes, I didn't want to mention it on my own but the live version got to be excruciating.. no fault whatsoever to Christina.

I can't blame the poor guitar player who evidently does back ups for her... I can't imagine many songs demand quite so much (a lot of empty air if trying for a minimalist version) and that much falsetto... from a guitarist first.. and a guy, being forced to imitate HALEY .. poor guy.

..... I give him a A+ for a game effort but, unfortunately despite the best intentions the result (back ups) was an F --- he took one class but was given a final for a class he was never expected to enroll in.

He does not sing the vocals on the album .

Haley's voice seems to be in one of the earlier back up chorus' but from my careful listening I'm pretty sure Christina' backs herself up in one key section and... I'm not sure if it is possible.. but I think they may have blended Christina and Haley's voices in most back-up sections beyond the one early in the song (might be the second instance not the first) which sounds clearly like Haley to me.

---

Miguel brought up a second point. "What would Christina's performance be without Haley guiding the way? "

Probably so forgettable that it wouldn't even have made the album. Yet... ... well what would any song be worth without the intricacies of the melody/score

Clearly Christina takes on many of Haley's "licks" and intonations.

Haley did write the song... if it were classical music, all the grace notes and runs would be part of the score. I'd imagine that part of forming the song is one of the important aspects of Haley's writing credit ... I'm sure she helps with lyrics as well.. but it is lyrics and melody together that make the song. The melody is more than a bare bones electronic midi tone.

I'm not sure where the line is but I imagine that those "ad libs" are considered far more part of the actual "work" in the first incarnation than successive alterations would be.

--

Points of contention : Some article linked on this site referred to the arguments and lawsuits by band members who felt they were instrumental (sorry for the pun) in developing the song with their bass lines, or guitar licks (if the guitarist wasn't one of the official "writers" ). The solo's and rhythms are such signature elements of many rock songs that a version without them sounds like a 're-writing' of a song.

How important are the Guitar solo to "hotel California" ? Perhaps it is 90% but people might argue. The guitarist Felder .. did write the song and recieved credits for it, but he shared some portion of them with the lead singer who made adjustments .... evidently what portion of what songs has been enough to break up bands.

Here is a short forum thread with a few good lines in it:

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/archive...83779.html

[My Alter Ego]

... if it were classical music, all the grace notes and runs would be part of the score.

Not true. While most may be a part of the score, there are symbols for appoggiaturas (grace notes) that allow for some creativity on the part of the player --carefully trained creativity, mind you, but creativity nonetheless.

[Miguel]

Comment I made on IF:

...Tell all the 13 and under crowd you come in contact with about this song. Who gives a crap who sings it. It only exists on file to make some cash for Haley.

You know what? it's a silly song, but pre-teen sensations are about all that banks today in music. Why not let Haley get in on soma that bank by writing for one or two of those pre-teen sensations, in-between the other stuff she really wants to do :thumbs:

Let Haley be a businesswoman and an adult who sees a hot market and builds a song to hit that market. Give her and the others who put that song and many other songs out there a little credit for having business sense.

...I am sure Haley does not have the slightest concern. She wants to write for money but to sing songs that fit her brand.

I think Haley is business savvy and realizes there is money to be made in songwriting. But her motivation in wanting to write for her album was that she wanted to be considered a true artist. While "Get Yourself Together" and some other songs may appeal to pre-teen girls, they are not far from the Haley brand. Because the flip side of her desire to be true artist is her desire to be an "inspiration" to others. She has stated repeatedly she is someone who likes to give advice and could see herself being a motivational speaker if she couldn't be a musician. One Haley trademark about "Get Yourself Together" is how dynamic it is structurally.

In making her album, Haley has stated she recorded most of the songs the same day they were written out of a desire to capture the vibe. She felt this made it a more artistic process. Personally, I think some songs, like "Get Yourself Together," might benefit from polishing their words/structure. Carole King said sometimes things come easily and sometimes they take real effort. I think in time Haley will mature as a songwriter and learn that "good enough" can sometimes be made "great" with patience and persistence.

[john]

In making her album, Haley has stated she recorded most of the songs the same day they were written out of a desire to capture the vibe. She felt this made it a more artistic process. Personally, I think some songs, like "Get Yourself Together," might benefit from polishing their words/structure. Carole King said sometimes things come easily and sometimes they take real effort. I think in time Haley will mature as a songwriter and learn that "good enough" can sometimes be made "great" with patience and persistence.

This is something that I disagree with Haley's approach. Sure, record it and capture the vibe, but don't stop there (at least on some songs). The Beatles did take after take and polished their songs. Of course, they had all the studio time they wanted, which Haley doesn't, but selective refinement could really pay off.

[My Alter Ego]

In making her album, Haley has stated she recorded most of the songs the same day they were written out of a desire to capture the vibe. She felt this made it a more artistic process. Personally, I think some songs, like "Get Yourself Together," might benefit from polishing their words/structure. Carole King said sometimes things come easily and sometimes they take real effort. I think in time Haley will mature as a songwriter and learn that "good enough" can sometimes be made "great" with patience and persistence.

This is something that I disagree with Haley's approach. Sure, record it and capture the vibe, but don't stop there (at least on some songs). The Beatles did take after take and polished their songs. Of course, they had all the studio time they wanted, which Haley doesn't, but selective refinement could really pay off.

Did the Beatles get to polish their songs in the first or second albums? (I honestly don't know, so please don't be unkind.)

Haley likes the "organic" feel, and, perhaps, that factors into those "recorded in one take" songs. But, sometimes, things that might have been won't be recorded, as a result.

When I first made the Carole King connection, I didn't make/take it lightly.

[Tusk]

The Beatles' first albums, many of the songs were 'one off' recordings, they had a HUGE library of songs they were proficient in because they performed them over and over again in Germany for hours on end.

Even with their own studio, I'm not too sure, they took too many takes, in their later albums, IMO there is still a 'rawness' to their recordings and vocals (especially Lennon)... I think a lot of the 'polish' of the latter albums was due in large part to their interest in how far they could push experimental sound engineering and inclusions of different instruments and sounds (George Martin was a huge factor).... Many of their contemporaries were equally interested in massaging their sound in the studio by that time, Pink Floyd comes to mind.

[john]

Did the Beatles get to polish their songs in the first or second albums? (I honestly don't know, so please don't be unkind.)

No. I think not. And Haley can't puzz around in a studio for days and weeks like the Beatles might have. Really my point is that some of her favorite tunes (Beatles songs) were carefully crafted in the studio. They were not spontaneous. I am just not of the mind that creating something great has to be done in a day. Particularly if you've never met your collaborators before as was sometimes the case.