Haley's New Songs

[john]

6. Better (The line "I threw your ring into the ocean" is honestly so horrible and cringeworthy that it pulls me out of the song every time, the music's good though. Maybe I'll come around on it.)

Funny how different tastes are ... I personally would also not put "Better" at the very top of my list, but it is just those lines that I like again and again, yes, with all their drama and cliche, totally works for me ... !

It took me a couple of listens to warm up to that line, but I'm fine with it. As far as cliche's go, I don't have a problem incorporating a cliche into a song if it is done well and fits. To me the real cliches in songs are often the predictable rhyming lyrics like fire - desire, or worn out metaphors about storms, hearts, mountains, etc.

[dswim2]

Can throwing things into an ocean be considered a cliche in music though?

[john]

Can throwing things into an ocean be considered a cliche in music though?

Not sure, but in the movie The Other Woman, Kate throws her wedding ring into the ocean. And during that scene this song plays. How many cliches can you count?


Maybe it's just one big cliche. The lyrics are empty -- nothing specific anywhere in that song.

[XAtlantic]

In my mind, of course it is cliche - but that person singing "Better" needed just this exact bit of drama to feel free again. Well knowing it is cliche and all, but going through with it as a verbal symbol - even slightly self-effacing maybe - to finally get rid of this huge burden. (I mean, think of a wedding, all the totally cliche things that people do, like throwing flowers, which they do even though it is totally cheesy and falsely romantic and all the worst of it, but still it somehow is part of all, needs to be done, all know it is cheesy and still look forward to it ...). I think the feelings in this song are completely serious, but the way that person chooses to express them is already slightly self-consciously dramatized - not to negate the feelings in any way, or the seriousness, but with a purpose: to facilitate freeing oneself. I think Haley on most if not all of her songs has this humorous element that is always self conscious, always slightly provocatively playing with established patterns - and that never has the function to negate the seriousness of the case, and always has the function to liberate.

Actually, now that I think of it, I think "liberation" is a big topic for Haley - also being liberated as a basis for real connections rather than problematic ones. And that liberation often for her takes the form of an act. And that act in "throwing the ring into the ocean" is what I like about this line in that song, from her - because it shows how she does it all.

Sorry for rambling!

[30CamdenSquare]

Since you guys are talking about it, I always thought of "I'll have my cake & eat it too" as being cliche, whereas "I threw your ring into the ocean" didn't phase me as much. (Although I think that's extremely wasteful & so I like to think that she actually pawned it & is just telling the guy she threw it in the ocean so he doesn't know she actually pocketed $450.) but I digress, so anyway, I looked up the definition, and if you replace the example w/ each of the lines... Do you see where I'm going w/ this?

a phrase or opinion that is overused and betrays a lack of original thought.
"the old cliché “one man's meat is another man's poison.”"
synonyms: platitude, hackneyed phrase, commonplace, banality, old saying, maxim, truism, stock phrase, trite phrase; old chestnut
"a good speechwriter will steer clear of clichés"

[dswim2]

1) My cake
2) Good or bad
3) Better
4) Listen
5)
6)

This is how I currently feel

[Rachel]

1) My cake
2) Good or bad
3) Better
4) Listen
5)
6)

This is how I currently feel

Haley told me there's "many" more songs we haven't heard yet, don't really know what she meant by it, I think in general we all know that's a fact, or maybe she said it meaning if she eventually gets to turn her EP into an LP later down the road, it'll feature a bunch of new material we haven't heard at all yet. I'm glad the EP will most likely be 6 songs instead of 4. 4 is just too little. Anything more than 6 is close enough to being an LP so I don't think we'll get more than that.

[XAtlantic]

Ok, so here is my order of post-Listen Up! songs that I know of.

I didn't include "Listen" because as far as I know we only have snippets of it, or do we? This list reflects just my current hearing of the songs and could change anytime. Some songs I could have easily reversed in order. These audios are very different in their degree of elaboration - sparse, studio, demo, live, guitar, piano, drums or not - and so fully produced versions of the songs could sound way, way different (though I often like less produced live versions of songs better, for many singers). "My Cake" for me still takes the crown in that funky version with Casey when we heard it first. I like the hardness of the "Love not War" demo, and the intricacy of "Love is worth fighting for". I have "Knock me out" at number 2 because I like the melodic aspects of it. At the top of the list are the more complex songs, in my hearing. I did put the power songs like SMYM into the middle because even though they are (or seem?) simpler, I like their drive, and I put Soul on Fire slightly before SMYM. The lower section has the more melodic stories that others would probably place much higher, and order was really difficult to decide here because these are all good songs, too, just different flavors. I put the ones bottom that I feel have simpler arcs or ideas or less surprising melodic structures - but any of these could be boosted straight to the top (of my tastes) with other arrangements or interpretations. So this is really on thin ice, and overall a strong list from top to bottom with just a few not-yet-fully-polished ideas mixed into the bunch. And of course, just a totally subjective take - Rachel's challenge.

1. My Cake
2. Knock Me Out
3. Love Not War
4. Love Is Worth Fighting For
5. Soul On Fire
6. Show Me Your Moves
7. Good Or Bad
8. Better
9. Lover Girl
10. Follow My Heart
11. Hard

PS: I can see how a top class strong EP or LP would select half of them max, just because the level is to be so high, and the mix good. I am really looking forward to the unknown surprises!

[Himm2]

Haley told me there's "many" more songs we haven't heard yet, don't really know what she meant by it, I think in general we all know that's a fact, or maybe she said it meaning if she eventually gets to turn her EP into an LP later down the road, it'll feature a bunch of new material we haven't heard at all yet. I'm glad the EP will most likely be 6 songs instead of 4. 4 is just too little. Anything more than 6 is close enough to being an LP so I don't think we'll get more than that.

Haley has 10 recorded songs to choose from for the 6 song EP. and there are many more then even those 10 that she has recorded demos of after the songwritting camps. I've heard many of those secretly and loved them all.

[dswim2]

They had an ole artist with an ep of 8 songs. I'm still hoping for that! Sure she has enough songs for a solid lp, but if shes gonna use her best songs for the ep, it could take awhile to be released

---

PS: I can see how a top class strong EP or LP would select half of them max, just because the level is to be so high, and the mix good. I am really looking forward to the unknown surprises

The nice thing about eps is that because there are only a few songs, the artist puts their best foot forward. A lot of times the ep only has 1 song that can be a single, but this is Haley we are talking about. What song on "Listen Up!" Wouldn't have made a decent single? Sure there were a couple fillers such as "liar", but to me Haley is included in a small margin of artists that isn't trying to write a hit single. She's trying to make an amazing storybook where all the chapters work together to create a Pulitzer Prize winner. She's the only artist where I truly enjoy all of her songs on some level. We've heard from himm that the songs are already better than her first album. To me listen up was already Grammy worthy but it never got the publicity. I saw a few of Haley's fans pushing for a nomination during awards ceremonies. Even her fellow contestants feel she deserves one--Jacob's tweet. I wonder, what's the next step after a grammy--legend? Can't wait for this ep!