(11-10-2012, 06:49 PM)midnightblues Wrote: Those are really good arguments Tom and a lot of your topics are valid. This is the very bottom line this is what defines freedom from being in bondage and it's called freedom of choice. Whether drugs are legal or they're not the person who feels compelled by either there or addiction or their self pleasure will find a way. Pretty much the same as prohibition that didn't stop anything. But we all know the ending of that it was called taxation. I was the pothead for many years both in the military and out of the military and I went to any length to get my fix. So really who gives a crap if they legalize it or not. To the person who needs it the most he will find a way. It away II got the monkey off my back, and that's real freedom.
Yeah Midnight...
People will get drugs anyway
but
- How easy drugs are to get is a material issue - I watch my weight but I sure and a hell struggle more with that when there are candy and cookies in the house - if I want a candy-bar I can get it anyway but, the obstacle of getting up and going to the store gives me more time to think about whether I want it or not. I can tolerate people using pot but dealing pot or producing it with the intention of distribution is a somewhat different matter for me.
If you've ever seen a guy trying to stay away from crack getting off a bus on the way home from work and having a guy in his face trying to convince him that a 7$ hit wouldn't do him any harm... it would only be once etc.. well it was a pretty turning site. and it wasn't isolated .
He wasn't trying to "get it anyway" .. he was getting taunted and tempted by the demon crack is by having it right there where he could get it .. and very especially by someone prodding him to buy it.
If recreational drug sales and distribution is legalized in a way that makes it hard to get you'll still have the pushers reselling it. The medical marijuana is sold by high school students who got some doctor to sign something to their peers. Its just that much less risky for them to sell more potent product at a lower price. If the prices were taxed severely you get the criminal element back in the picture smuggling in product .. like the high cigarette taxes do some places
- cocaine : a few lines really aren't that harmful. Unfortunately the drug is so damn habit forming even if "used correctly" . Anyone that's been in a social sub-segment that's has it around knows its like skating on thin ice. (im tempted to make a analogy of making sales legal being like someone renting skates next to a lake with thin ice but not sure where i'd go with it)
I'm sure you've known people who got hooked up into cocaine. The expense of it and the illegality of it back when I was young really Helped limit use. Only the richer guys with tons of cash seemed to get really habitual about it and it seems to be self fueling. Because it was illegal, and expensive .. there was less to go around and peoples use ended for the night when their supply ended.
Lets say people could buy a dime at the 7-11 for 5$. That price and availability and legality really would make a difference in how many people got that monkey on their back... you'd agree there wouldn't you? If someone could buy enough for 5 nights of intended use for $20 , if you know the drug, you know that normally pretty sane people will go through far more than they intended - its just that evil sort of substance in itself.
What is worse is once people have tried free-basing, which someone casually using regular cocaine might not think would be too bad a step to do once, a much larger percentage of people who try free basing get into a really really ugly spiral. The high gives just too much exhilaration or something.
Having easy access to regular cocaine , also means easy access to free-basing cocaine ... you can't seperate the two and people free-basing rarely keep their life together.
The harder it is for users to get it, the easier it is to continue not to use it.
-
more - we're not all the same.. it would be blind to expect that we are and pretty damn callous as self governing group to order things knowing that one portion of the group was at grave risk to aid the convenience of others to indulge.
(thankfully) stimulant drugs never did anything for me. I am diagnosed with ADHD. I ve been taking a slow release heavy stimulant for almost 10 years now every day. It would have 90% of the population bouncing off walls and unable to function. My body chemistry and many others with the same diagnosis is such that the stimulant relaxes me and helps me focus rather than rushing from thing to thing, unable to sit still etc. Exact opposite effect as the other 90% of the population
- as a species we're the same in most ways but there are differences too
People can't judge others by how drugs effect them and expect that others are facing the same choices -
What we can do is observe how people react even if we don't know the sensations inside of them and the physiological changes in thought process.
... its pretty clear to me how dangerous cocaine is for others -- it seems especially able to draw in people who have their life together and don't have other careless or reckless traits to begin with -- but then can twist them . Of course it also draws in people looking for escape or self destructive initially etc.. but cocaine is so damn seductive in its effect that its dangerous for a far bigger group.
There is also a major step between something being legal to carry and something that is commercially distributed. Good distribution and high quality products with less risk has got to lead to more sales of virtually anything.
I know the arguments saying that more people try something because its illegal. I have mixed feelings there. Maybe making something illicit makes it feel cooler to try but once you've got a taste for it the easier it is to buy on impulse and the less reinforcement of the idea that its bad, the more people who've tried it and don't plan to use it more are going to be tempted over and over.
While some people will be attracted to the wild side there are also large numbers of people who use conformance to the law and sleezyness feelings about places to help regulate what they are comfortable with doing as a person.
I know how costly the war on drugs is. I know what a wast
There has got to be something between making something a serious felony and still making it an unpermitted business.
--
but this started with pot.
I brought up cocaine and the bigger issues to try to claim that its not a clear bright line whether or not pot use is private affair -
I've tried many and smoked pot regularly in college.
I've got a 15 year old boy. To be honest, I'm probably more comfortable with the idea of him using -some- pot than him drinking. -- eventually... I'd be pretty strict in punishing him now.
...and that punishment thing within the family is also very related to how society approaches it . Yes I know he'll try the stuff. Yes I know it would be unrealistic for me to expect him to be perfect. But I also know it is my role as a parent to be tougher than shit about it when he's young because if I give and inch he'll take a mile. If I don't give an inch maybe he'll only take a quarter mile, and i'm secretly ok with a quarter mile.
I'm not sure legalizing pot would cause it's use to sky-rocket out of control. Habitual pot use takes a more willing victim. I do know the drug though and it is different than alcohol in terms of exactly how it effects thinking and attitudes. I think its risks are particularly higher for kids at a point where they're defining themselves and really wanting to have a crutch to quit trying at an unpleasant task school might be. Once you like what you're doing , pot is probably less risky than alcohol...but that's all moving into tricky and very subjective descriptions.
