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Carol Kaye session musician
08-06-2017, 04:48 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-06-2017, 06:50 PM by john.)
#9
RE: Carol Kaye session musician
I was going to put together a post on the "embellishment" or controversy part of things, but still trying to chase down details.

First I will say a lot of the accusations are repeats of the same comments over and over. Clearly she doesn't have the same recollections as some of the old players on certain songs. Overall, there is no question that she was a bigtime contributor on many recordings, but some specific sessions are in dispute. The bass on Midnight Confessions was claimed by another for example and she does have payment for use of that in a film (I think that was it) posted to show her involvement. Other stuff she doesn't have proof, nor do others. Some of the disputed stuff involved dubs that were done separately, then added to the track.

It is too bad there are these controversies. Some of it may be due to her perspective that there are a lot of distortions in books and videos, such as the Wrecking Crew. She claimed that there are a lot of distortions put forward by others to enhance their own reputations. One problem is that musicians did not need to be credited in any way until 1973.

There are other issues. By various accounts Motown was recording in LA in 1964, although they were claiming that recordings were being done in Detroit. Carol recalled recording ostensibly for a Motown act called the Lewis Sisters (who couldn't sing by her account), only to hear the music released later on a record by another well know Motown group. By various accounts Motown was violating various musician union rules and never admitted to anything.

Here is the kind of thing that shows up in music forums
Quote:The Shaft bass line isn't particularly impressive, but her resume certainly is.

It's worth mentioning that in recent years Carol has credited herself for sessions she never took part in.

But let's not pretend that Kaye was the only Doors bassist.

Case in point.

Personally I think she's just a little confused, as her resume hardly needs any padding. She was an amazing musician.

People make a lot of assumptions. I don't think she played the obvious bass line in Shaft, for example. She may have added some "fill" as she describes it, for one version -- for the movie not the single. (I'm am not saying this is the case although she lists this as a movie overdub). Same could happen with something like Light My Fire. A producer might decide the recording was too thin in some ways and after the song has been initially recorded get a studio musician to subtly beef it up. Not saying that is how it went down with LMF, but she described that dubbing process in a general way. In cases like that nobody would recall the session player, because they were not there -- it was recorded separately. When LMF was recorded the Doors were not the big name they came to be after it was released. They initially recorded the long album version and then were told they need a short version if they wanted radio play. I am sure the producers and record company had a heavy hand in creating the sound they thought would sell, and some of the may have involved post production changes like adding some overdub.

I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't over reach in some claims, but that would apply to a lot of those players. She recorded thousands of songs (10K sessions with multiple songs per session usually). She may get disputed doubly from some of the old timers because she is female. I think there are some songs that don't fit time lines and she probably didn't do as much as she implies, but it is very difficult to find clear proof that she didn't participate in specific recordings.

Another from a forum...
Quote:She is a talented lady, no doubt, but her memory is faulty, perhaps because of advancing age. I won't get into a long winded response at this time, but her claim about playing on some of these Motown songs can easily be dismissed. I'm not going to go so far as to call her a liar, but I am. She may have done some work for Motown, but she never played on ANY Holland-Dozier-Holland song or production, at least prior to April 1970, as they were all done in Detroit....

This person was not there and this has been addressed at length. They were not all done in Detroit (that was PR bullsh*t). Carol and others have spoken about the recordings for Motown at length.

Oh, what about this:
Quote:he producers Frank Wilson & Hal Davis were based in Los Angeles I believe.

The notes with the 2004 Motown Treasures CD indicate that the track was recorded in Los Angeles (date unknown) with background vocals recorded in Detroit April 21, 1966, lead vocal recorded April 27 (presumably Detroit?)

The 2008 Supreme Rarities CD which includes the alternate vocal version has the same information apart from the contradictory "all dates Los Angeles"
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/mo...ia.530962/

Nonetheless the person who speculated her memory is failing spreads this stuff and others pick it up.

She said the same things in 1973
Quote:"Motown recorded about half here and half in Detroit," she said. "They were saving money because they were a new company, so we played for less than union scale. Hell, we thought they were demos, but when we heard them as hits we demanded scale.""

Rolling Stone, November 22, 1973. Page 26.

Not trying to defend Carol Kaye in all of the disputed tracks, but I see a lot of people who are willing to jump on that train with very little evidence. There is a ton of that. It is kind of like the AI folks who said Haley has a bad attitude. LOL. No doubt she is boisterous and opinionated.

However Carol Kaye played on the Bob Thiele & Gabor Szabo album - Light My Fire 1967, as did Tom Scott. She did not play on the title track though, but she did on this one:

Bob Thiele & Gabor Szabo - Eight Miles High


This was her first bass work as a studio musician (perhaps when the guy no showed)
Reply


Messages In This Thread
Carol Kaye session musician - by john - 08-05-2017, 01:42 AM
RE: Carol Kaye session musician - by john - 08-05-2017, 03:39 AM
RE: Carol Kaye session musician - by john - 08-05-2017, 05:11 AM
RE: Carol Kaye session musician - by john - 08-05-2017, 01:24 PM
RE: Carol Kaye session musician - by Tom22 - 08-05-2017, 01:50 PM
RE: Carol Kaye session musician - by john - 08-05-2017, 01:58 PM
RE: Carol Kaye session musician - by john - 08-06-2017, 03:43 AM
RE: Carol Kaye session musician - by Tom22 - 08-06-2017, 02:12 PM
RE: Carol Kaye session musician - by john - 08-06-2017, 04:48 PM
RE: Carol Kaye session musician - by john - 08-07-2017, 01:19 AM

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