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Fine Music - Orchestra, Big Band, Classical and Such
06-16-2015, 10:04 AM (This post was last modified: 06-16-2015 10:15 AM by Tom22.)
Post: #101
RE: Fine Music - Orchestra, Big Band, Classical and Such
(06-15-2015 06:44 PM)My Alter Ego Wrote:  While the "battle" of plagiarism/giving/not giving credit to arrangements/songs wages on over on The Voice Season 8 thread, I thought I'd come over here to discuss an observation that I made rather recently.

And that observation is that the show stopper in Les Mis, "Bring Him Home," supposedly written specifically for Colm Wilkinson, has major similarities to the "Humming Song" from Madame Butterfly.

Humming Song





Bring Him Home




I guess Mr. Puccini must not have any family around that can go after Claude-Michel Schönberg, composer of the Les Mis music.

I believe that all the "classical" music is in the public domain.

I've been thinking about that as perhaps one of the safest ways around patent infringement.. just copy what is already in the public domain and maybe you can't be sued... of course you can't sue others for using your melodies then.

You'd have a better case if you'd made bona fide different arrangement. Actual recordings by artists are still their property in terms of being played though. Anyone can play and record and sell the old works but people can't sell them playing the works without their permission.

Anyway, I've been thinking of that as I've begun to mess around making some rudimentary computer games as part of a career switch I"m doing.

I'm learning computer programming and while I don't anticipate going into the game industry they're going to be good exercise for learning the javascript language in the next couple weeks

I'm not sure If I'll try to break out my old saxophone or try to do a Haley hand trumpet or whistle the tunes but I want to add some "royalty free" sounds and ...well I might try to make them myself.

Its funny I can hum dozens of passages from different symphonies and concertos but I don't know any of their names or even remember the composers in most cases.

My pitch singing or humming etc is terrible so I'm not really sure I should do the humming along either. (I think it's mostly a matter of hearing myself while vocalizing.. I don't think my ear for pitch was as bad when playing my saxophone)

-- aside .. I love the score to Les Mis ... it could be the "standing on the shoulders" of prior artists helped Claude-Michel Schönberg make it moving(of course it plays into my preferences for music that is a bit political and about faith in self/destiny coupled with expressions of defiance)

I'm far more for the progress of art and technology than for the "property" rights of ideas ... as I've expressed elsewhere...
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06-16-2015, 10:40 AM
Post: #102
RE: Fine Music - Orchestra, Big Band, Classical and Such
(06-16-2015 10:04 AM)Tom22 Wrote:  I believe that all the "classical" music is in the public domain.
Actually not true, not all. I had to make some instructional videos for our company and thought the same thing.

I chose a classical song, Tchaikovsky, I think, and was chagrined to find that meant YouTube could place one of their annoying ads on the video, which of course wouldn't do for a 'business video' Tongue
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06-16-2015, 05:56 PM
Post: #103
RE: Fine Music - Orchestra, Big Band, Classical and Such
(06-16-2015 10:40 AM)Tusk Wrote:  
(06-16-2015 10:04 AM)Tom22 Wrote:  I believe that all the "classical" music is in the public domain.
Actually not true, not all. I had to make some instructional videos for our company and thought the same thing.

I chose a classical song, Tchaikovsky, I think, and was chagrined to find that meant YouTube could place one of their annoying ads on the video, which of course wouldn't do for a 'business video' Tongue

When I saw your post, I immediately wondered if it was the "music" or the "recording." It seems that it would be the recording.

Quote:
Copyrights in Public Domain music and Classical music


Why are companies such as ourselves (Lynne Publishing / Shockwave-Sound.Com) claiming copyrights in classical recordings, tracks by Mozart and the likes? Isn't this music in the Public Domain? Why can't I just take this music and use it in my film, or on my website, without having to pay anybody for a right to do that?

On the face of it, it seems odd. After all, there is a law that says music composed by a composer who has been dead for 75 years becomes Public Domain. That's why, for example, in 2008, compositions by George Gershwin became Public Domain -- in other words, they belong to the people. To everyone and no one. And of course, people like Mozart, Vivaldi, Beethoven and Tchaikovsky have all been dead much longer than 75 years, so their compositions have been in the Public Domain for a long time already.

But even so, take a piece of Mozart music from a CD and use it on your YouTube video, on your website or in your film, without first buying a license for commercial exploitation of that music -- and you risk, at best, having YouTube strip the audio track off your video, or at worst, having legal action taken against you by a company that claims copyright in that recording.

The clue is in that word: The recording. For here we come to the crux of the matter. There are in fact two copyrights that exist in every music recording. One is the right in the Composition, and the other is the right in the Recording. When we are talking about classical music rights, we are talking about the rights that exist in that recording and arrangement. The arrangement basically means someone's "interpretation" of the composition.

see full article here: http://www.shockwave-sound.com/Articles/...music.html
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06-16-2015, 06:00 PM
Post: #104
RE: Fine Music - Orchestra, Big Band, Classical and Such
What was annoying was I used music from YouTube's 'royalty free' library
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06-16-2015, 06:06 PM
Post: #105
RE: Fine Music - Orchestra, Big Band, Classical and Such
(06-16-2015 06:00 PM)Tusk Wrote:  What was annoying was I used music from YouTube's 'royalty free' library

Well, I can understand how that would be annoying.Cool
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06-17-2015, 01:25 PM
Post: #106
RE: Fine Music - Orchestra, Big Band, Classical and Such
Quote:I believe that all the "classical" music is in the public domain.

Tom, as a post that I made after yours, but before this, the music composed by an individual becomes public domain, 75 years after the death of said composer. However recordings do not necessarily become public domain.

Quote:I've been thinking about that as perhaps one of the safest ways around patent infringement.. just copy what is already in the public domain and maybe you can't be sued... of course you can't sue others for using your melodies then.

Patents and copyrights are not the same thing/interchangeable. See this link: http://www.lawmart.com/forms/difference.htm

We also have at least one resident J.D. as a Haleyfan, should further explanation be needed.

Quote:You'd have a better case if you'd made bona fide different arrangement. Actual recordings by artists are still their property in terms of being played though. Anyone can play and record and sell the old works but people can't sell them playing the works without their permission.

What? Whether intentional or not -- and I'm inclined to give composer of Les Mis a little benefit, Bring Him Home has an extraordinary similarity to the piece in Madame Butterfly. And the video that I selected has a poster who also recognizes it. See Robert Damico's post. And your personal preference about what is acceptable or not, isn't necessarily what is legally acceptable. It's just your opinion.

Quote:Anyway, I've been thinking of that as I've begun to mess around making some rudimentary computer games as part of a career switch I"m doing.

I'm learning computer programming and while I don't anticipate going into the game industry they're going to be good exercise for learning the javascript language in the next couple weeks

I'm not sure If I'll try to break out my old saxophone or try to do a Haley hand trumpet or whistle the tunes but I want to add some "royalty free" sounds and ...well I might try to make them myself.

Its funny I can hum dozens of passages from different symphonies and concertos but I don't know any of their names or even remember the composers in most cases.

My pitch singing or humming etc is terrible so I'm not really sure I should do the humming along either. (I think it's mostly a matter of hearing myself while vocalizing.. I don't think my ear for pitch was as bad when playing my saxophone)

And you may find yourself dealing with what Tusk encountered.

Quote:-- aside .. I love the score to Les Mis ... it could be the "standing on the shoulders" of prior artists helped Claude-Michel Schönberg make it moving(of course it plays into my preferences for music that is a bit political and about faith in self/destiny coupled with expressions of defiance)

Les Mis was/is an extraordinary work and, initially, an incredible risk, I suspect. However, the risk paid off, and it will remain an iconic musical theatre production. The fact that it "re-purposes" melodies through out the show, and that it is highly close to "opera" in that the story is told through song, will always make it a "break out theatrical event." And I'm probably missing other major points. Just so you know, I love it, but after hearing the Humming Song by Puccini numerous times, I began realizing the major similarities to Bring Him Home.

Quote:I'm far more for the progress of art and technology than for the "property" rights of ideas ... as I've expressed elsewhere...

While you have every right to have such personal ideas, that doesn't mean that your personal ideas get to be imposed on IP rights.
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04-05-2016, 06:53 AM (This post was last modified: 04-05-2016 06:54 AM by My Alter Ego.)
Post: #107
RE: Fine Music - Orchestra, Big Band, Classical and Such
More Khatia Buniatishvili, this time the Piano Concerto No. 2 by S. Rachmaninov. And, yes, if that main theme reminds you of All By Myself (Eric Carmen), that's because Carmen "borrowed" it from Rachminoff. (He did so with Never Gonna Fall in Love Again as well.)



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04-23-2016, 11:41 PM (This post was last modified: 04-24-2016 01:06 AM by Tom22.)
Post: #108
RE: Fine Music - Orchestra, Big Band, Classical and Such
(04-05-2016 06:53 AM)My Alter Ego Wrote:  More Khatia Buniatishvili, this time the Piano Concerto No. 2 by S. Rachmaninov. And, yes, if that main theme reminds you of All By Myself (Eric Carmen), that's because Carmen "borrowed" it from Rachminoff. (He did so with Never Gonna Fall in Love Again as well.)




Wow that was really good. I really do enjoy what she brings to these iconic pieces...
...cut this part out.. hahahahahha...........

EDIT just listened to this(khatia) a third time and again it's incredible.

MAE >> I know you've expressed something on the lines that there isn't too much leeway in how a performer "interprets" classical music but...

.. khatia really sounds different to me... not as different on this one that Javis and her on the Mahler but still.

compare it to this one (which isn't bad at all... but the pianists seem to be expressing different things about life through the music.. imo at least)





Now I'm going and listening to all the different ways different artists bring things to the piece.

... .. stay tuned haha (probably will just keep listening to khatia)
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04-24-2016, 06:47 AM (This post was last modified: 04-24-2016 07:12 AM by My Alter Ego.)
Post: #109
RE: Fine Music - Orchestra, Big Band, Classical and Such
Quote:MAE >> I know you've expressed something on the lines that there isn't too much leeway in how a performer "interprets" classical music but...

.. khatia really sounds different to me... not as different on this one that Javis and her on the Mahler but still.

Tom, Rachmaninoff is known to have been a fine pianist. I wonder if this wasn't how he envisioned the piece being played. Glad you enjoyed her interpretation.

Khatia plays with a passion that I certainly haven't seen or heard from her peer concert pianists.

Have fun in your listening adventure!

*Also, I should have been more clear in my message above. Carmen borrowed from Rachmaninoff with Never Gonna Fall in Love Again as well, although he used the theme from the third movement of Rachmaninoff's Second Symphony, not the Second Piano Concerto.
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08-05-2016, 12:05 PM (This post was last modified: 08-05-2016 12:06 PM by Tom22.)
Post: #110
RE: Fine Music - Orchestra, Big Band, Classical and Such
Itzhak Perlman plays the Star Spangled banner at a metz game

(something to keep the thread alive Smile )

https://www.facebook.com/Itzhakperlmanofficial/

doesn't seem to be a way to embed facebook video and didn't find this decent recording on youtube
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