Another 'Hero' Falls to doping
08-23-2012, 10:00 PM,
#1
Another 'Hero' Falls to doping
Lance Armstrong has given up the fight and is no longer going to fight doping allegations

He has been stripped of all his wins at the Tour de France

Marion Jones
Roger Clemens
Barry Bonds
Marc McGuire

Now Lance Armstrong.... I think maybe what he needs to do is concentrate on his charities and keep low profile, people also forget if you apologise, so there is that too.

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08-24-2012, 10:14 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-24-2012, 10:18 AM by Miguel.)
#2
RE: Another 'Hero' Falls to doping
The USADA can't actually strip him of the titles. And it's unclear what the tour will do since everyone who finished immediately behind him has been more directly tied to doping.

Quote:The International Cycling Union will wait for the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency to explain why Lance Armstrong should lose his seven Tour de France titles before commenting on the case.

In his statement, Armstrong did not admit to doping.

Quote:Lance Armstong's Statement of August 23, 2012

AUSTIN, Texas - August 23rd, 2012 - There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in winning my seven Tours since 1999. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a two-year federal criminal investigation followed by Travis Tygart's unconstitutional witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for our foundation and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense.

I had hoped that a federal court would stop USADA’s charade. Although the court was sympathetic to my concerns and recognized the many improprieties and deficiencies in USADA’s motives, its conduct, and its process, the court ultimately decided that it could not intervene.

If I thought for one moment that by participating in USADA’s process, I could confront these allegations in a fair setting and – once and for all – put these charges to rest, I would jump at the chance. But I refuse to participate in a process that is so one-sided and unfair. Regardless of what Travis Tygart says, there is zero physical evidence to support his outlandish and heinous claims. The only physical evidence here is the hundreds of controls I have passed with flying colors. I made myself available around the clock and around the world. In-competition. Out of competition. Blood. Urine. Whatever they asked for I provided. What is the point of all this testing if, in the end, USADA will not stand by it?

From the beginning, however, this investigation has not been about learning the truth or cleaning up cycling, but about punishing me at all costs. I am a retired cyclist, yet USADA has lodged charges over 17 years old despite its own 8-year limitation. As respected organizations such as UCI and USA Cycling have made clear, USADA lacks jurisdiction even to bring these charges. The international bodies governing cycling have ordered USADA to stop, have given notice that no one should participate in USADA’s improper proceedings, and have made it clear the pronouncements by USADA that it has banned people for life or stripped them of their accomplishments are made without authority. And as many others, including USADA’s own arbitrators, have found, there is nothing even remotely fair about its process. USADA has broken the law, turned its back on its own rules, and stiff-armed those who have tried to persuade USADA to honor its obligations. At every turn, USADA has played the role of a bully, threatening everyone in its way and challenging the good faith of anyone who questions its motives or its methods, all at U.S. taxpayers’ expense. For the last two months, USADA has endlessly repeated the mantra that there should be a single set of rules, applicable to all, but they have arrogantly refused to practice what they preach. On top of all that, USADA has allegedly made deals with other riders that circumvent their own rules as long as they said I cheated. Many of those riders continue to race today.

The bottom line is I played by the rules that were put in place by the UCI, WADA and USADA when I raced. The idea that athletes can be convicted today without positive A and B samples, under the same rules and procedures that apply to athletes with positive tests, perverts the system and creates a process where any begrudged ex-teammate can open a USADA case out of spite or for personal gain or a cheating cyclist can cut a sweetheart deal for themselves. It’s an unfair approach, applied selectively, in opposition to all the rules. It’s just not right.

USADA cannot assert control of a professional international sport and attempt to strip my seven Tour de France titles. I know who won those seven Tours, my teammates know who won those seven Tours, and everyone I competed against knows who won those seven Tours. We all raced together. For three weeks over the same roads, the same mountains, and against all the weather and elements that we had to confront. There were no shortcuts, there was no special treatment. The same courses, the same rules. The toughest event in the world where the strongest man wins. Nobody can ever change that. Especially not Travis Tygart.

Today I turn the page. I will no longer address this issue, regardless of the circumstances. I will commit myself to the work I began before ever winning a single Tour de France title: serving people and families affected by cancer, especially those in underserved communities. This October, my Foundation will celebrate 15 years of service to cancer survivors and the milestone of raising nearly $500 million. We have a lot of work to do and I'm looking forward to an end to this pointless distraction. I have a responsibility to all those who have stepped forward to devote their time and energy to the cancer cause. I will not stop fighting for that mission. Going forward, I am going to devote myself to raising my five beautiful (and energetic) kids, fighting cancer, and attempting to be the fittest 40-year old on the planet.

(08-24-2012, 10:14 AM)Miguel Wrote: The USADA can't actually strip him of the titles. And it's unclear what the tour will do since everyone who finished immediately behind him has been more directly tied to doping.

Quote:The International Cycling Union will wait for the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency to explain why Lance Armstrong should lose his seven Tour de France titles before commenting on the case.

In his statement, Armstrong did not admit to doping.

Quote:Lance Armstong's Statement of August 23, 2012

AUSTIN, Texas - August 23rd, 2012 - There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in winning my seven Tours since 1999. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a two-year federal criminal investigation followed by Travis Tygart's unconstitutional witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for our foundation and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense.

I had hoped that a federal court would stop USADA’s charade. Although the court was sympathetic to my concerns and recognized the many improprieties and deficiencies in USADA’s motives, its conduct, and its process, the court ultimately decided that it could not intervene.

If I thought for one moment that by participating in USADA’s process, I could confront these allegations in a fair setting and – once and for all – put these charges to rest, I would jump at the chance. But I refuse to participate in a process that is so one-sided and unfair. Regardless of what Travis Tygart says, there is zero physical evidence to support his outlandish and heinous claims. The only physical evidence here is the hundreds of controls I have passed with flying colors. I made myself available around the clock and around the world. In-competition. Out of competition. Blood. Urine. Whatever they asked for I provided. What is the point of all this testing if, in the end, USADA will not stand by it?

From the beginning, however, this investigation has not been about learning the truth or cleaning up cycling, but about punishing me at all costs. I am a retired cyclist, yet USADA has lodged charges over 17 years old despite its own 8-year limitation. As respected organizations such as UCI and USA Cycling have made clear, USADA lacks jurisdiction even to bring these charges. The international bodies governing cycling have ordered USADA to stop, have given notice that no one should participate in USADA’s improper proceedings, and have made it clear the pronouncements by USADA that it has banned people for life or stripped them of their accomplishments are made without authority. And as many others, including USADA’s own arbitrators, have found, there is nothing even remotely fair about its process. USADA has broken the law, turned its back on its own rules, and stiff-armed those who have tried to persuade USADA to honor its obligations. At every turn, USADA has played the role of a bully, threatening everyone in its way and challenging the good faith of anyone who questions its motives or its methods, all at U.S. taxpayers’ expense. For the last two months, USADA has endlessly repeated the mantra that there should be a single set of rules, applicable to all, but they have arrogantly refused to practice what they preach. On top of all that, USADA has allegedly made deals with other riders that circumvent their own rules as long as they said I cheated. Many of those riders continue to race today.

The bottom line is I played by the rules that were put in place by the UCI, WADA and USADA when I raced. The idea that athletes can be convicted today without positive A and B samples, under the same rules and procedures that apply to athletes with positive tests, perverts the system and creates a process where any begrudged ex-teammate can open a USADA case out of spite or for personal gain or a cheating cyclist can cut a sweetheart deal for themselves. It’s an unfair approach, applied selectively, in opposition to all the rules. It’s just not right.

USADA cannot assert control of a professional international sport and attempt to strip my seven Tour de France titles. I know who won those seven Tours, my teammates know who won those seven Tours, and everyone I competed against knows who won those seven Tours. We all raced together. For three weeks over the same roads, the same mountains, and against all the weather and elements that we had to confront. There were no shortcuts, there was no special treatment. The same courses, the same rules. The toughest event in the world where the strongest man wins. Nobody can ever change that. Especially not Travis Tygart.

Today I turn the page. I will no longer address this issue, regardless of the circumstances. I will commit myself to the work I began before ever winning a single Tour de France title: serving people and families affected by cancer, especially those in underserved communities. This October, my Foundation will celebrate 15 years of service to cancer survivors and the milestone of raising nearly $500 million. We have a lot of work to do and I'm looking forward to an end to this pointless distraction. I have a responsibility to all those who have stepped forward to devote their time and energy to the cancer cause. I will not stop fighting for that mission. Going forward, I am going to devote myself to raising my five beautiful (and energetic) kids, fighting cancer, and attempting to be the fittest 40-year old on the planet.

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08-24-2012, 12:46 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-24-2012, 12:48 PM by Tusk.)
#3
RE: Another 'Hero' Falls to doping
Sometimes "perception is reality" Barry Bonds never tested positive either nor did Roger Clemens, AND they both beat the US government in court, yet the HR Leader and one of the greatest pitchers in our generation will likely not be voted into the Baseball Hall of Fame

As you mentioned, others that came after Armstrong had more doping evidence...so what we're saying is, for seven years, Armstrong was able to beat a field of doped competitors, yet he was the ONLY ONE that did not dope also? Odds say no.
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08-24-2012, 12:55 PM,
#4
RE: Another 'Hero' Falls to doping
Would it be wrong for me to say that I think it sucks he doesn't have the balls to keep fighting?
Reply
08-24-2012, 01:04 PM,
#5
RE: Another 'Hero' Falls to doping
(08-24-2012, 12:55 PM)LovinDaHaley Wrote: Would it be wrong for me to say that I think it sucks he doesn't have the balls to keep fighting?

LDH with the double entendre [Image: happy0065.gif]...somehow I would be worried facing LDH in a street fight...she knows how to handle herself [Image: fighting0072.gif]
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08-24-2012, 06:35 PM,
#6
RE: Another 'Hero' Falls to doping
The whole idea of fishing looking for wrong doing years after the fact scares the hell out of me.

I've got no problem with blood testing that produces a verdict within days or month of an event.

Different times have different mores. "everyone is doing it" doesn't make something right, but it does make it the reality at the time the event was run.

The worst thing about looking for past crimes(looking for crimes, not looking for a criminal to solve a known crime, which is different entirely) is the precendence it sets for what we're comfortable with in others areas.

I like to pride myself for paying the taxes I owe...well I don't like to pay taxes but Im not a law breaker I mean. But, if you dig through any business persons past taxes you're going to find something that was so darn complicated in the law to present that they called it one thing when it should have been called another, or lumped them together a bit. In my situation it was usually pretty simple , or where it was complicated I wouldn't have owed taxes on that complicated part either way (funny how complicated stuff didn't make me money, but thats another subject).

But say you get someone in office that doesn't like someone. Or worse, lets say you get someone in office who's largest donor is a company you compete against and are about to seriously crush with a new product. If the conversation between the leader and his donor goes "what do we have to hold over this guys head" digging through a business guys past filings would be a good place to start.

There doesn't need to really be anything glaringly wrong either.. they could just push on some gray area about capitalizing or expensing some large expenditures and seek 3 times penalties plus back interest immediately and notify your banks of the investigation etc.... even if you prevail in court, which you would with the right attorney's, you'd be crushed by the attorney fee's and frozen credit .

That's why you can't have beuarocracies digging into past events looking for crimes in a selective manner.

To me that sort of power play is one of the worst evils in the world... but I got an issue with intitutions. Tyranny basically... scarier than a gun point robbery because its so systematic and still has power over you rather being some random act.

(I'm staying away from the Haley career thing for a while. It was getting too creepy for me to be that involved. I'll still be curious but I'm going to bite my lip about what I say and how actively I watch day by day events....the industry is interesty but ...well bite my lip time.)
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