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Christina Grimmie fatally shot after concert
06-11-2016, 05:14 PM,
#21
RE: Christina Grimmie fatally shot after concert
(06-11-2016, 01:19 PM)My Alter Ego Wrote:
(06-11-2016, 01:10 PM)XAtlantic Wrote: In my opinion, one should call it what it is, murder.

And even if it should have been a mentally disturbed person, it is a cultural thing that the thought of such someone wanders to killing, rather than on to something else.

The only little consolence is that she died doing what she lived for, being there for her fans. It's the last thing she did, and it says it all.

XAtlantic, how does Germany deal with: a.) the mentally disturbed to begin with; and b.) situations where the mentally disturbed commit crimes?*

* Recognizing that we don't yet know specifics in Christina Grimmie's killing.

Hi MAE, it is a complicated issue, of course, and politically charged. But the fact of the matter is that violence is more prevalent in the US than in many other developed countries and I don't think it has anything to do with politics to contemplate potential reasons, e.g. in a scientific manner. What brings people to perceive violence as an option? What brings people to expect a certain level of violence to be "normal" - in the sense that you have to guard against it because it just can't be changed? Is the answer counter-violence or just the opposite? That's why I used the word "culture": I think there is a system of values, expectations and practices in play that leads to outcomes (probably unintentionally, and historically formed) - outcomes that include the degree of peacefulness. Thought patterns influence the sane and the disturbed alike.

So while I think it is of course a particular and special situation if we're dealing with someone who is mentally disturbed, I do think that the patterns of their actions resonate to some degree with conditions in mainstream culture. So it is not enough to just say "mentally disturbed", one has to ask: why is killing a topic of consideration?

I personally have never again been so anxious when moving about than I was at times during my years in the US, or been so close to violence, despite living in a peaceful neighborhood. A receptionist was shot in a women's clinic, a night clerk in a convenience store, a body was found in a dumpster. All in a peaceful Boston suburb where you'd go for a careless Sunday walk. It was an unexpected relief to be back after many (wonderful and fulfilling) years and walk home from work along a dark forest edge - and not worry much.

There are mentally disturbed in Europe as well, obviously, there have been tragic incidents. Sometimes these persons are locked into psychiatric wards, at other times not punished at all if they are not accountable for their actions. The German minister of finances is in a wheelchair because many years back he was gunned down. The most tragic killing crimes, however, are committed intentionally, now that I think of it, like the mass-killing in Norway a few years back. We even had some school shootings here in Germany, though that is a pretty new phenomena, but I don't think disturbance rated as a motive for them. Finland had several. Recently the top (female) candidate for mayor of the ancient city of Cologne had a knife stabbed into her throat and nearly died (unbroken, she now is in office as the elected mayor - this was a clear-headed racist attack aimed at her policies in support of war refugees coming to Germany - you may know that last year alone more than a million Syrian refugees came to Germany - we have tent cities to house them, sports venues converted etc., and it is working, as it needs to, these are desperate people; but a segment of the population opposes it). Generally I think violence is on the increase across Europe as the cohesion of societies is fragmenting.

In reading the reactions to this murder of Christina Grimmie I find the reactions to be (understandably) emotional in two ways: on the one hand, there is a lot of outpouring of grief and shock, of not believing what happened - as if this were not sadly "just" the latest in a long string of such happenings. And on the other hand a sense of fate hitting blindly, something one has to reckon with - as if it were not a pattern that calls for an investigation of the required actions, for example regarding gun control. (But HF wisely disallows politics and this topic is very political in the US, so let's not go there. Also as a foreigner I would not want to pretend to know what is best, and as a German of course not as well, we have our own struggles that aren't pretty at all.)

Incredibly sad and disturbing it remains today. No words can better it. I hope that Haley's fighting spirits keep her strong and reflected.
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RE: Christina Grimmie fatally shot after concert - by XAtlantic - 06-11-2016, 05:14 PM

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