"CREEP" - PMJ studio version with HALEY
05-15-2021, 03:14 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-15-2021, 03:27 AM by john.)
RE: "CREEP" - PMJ studio version with HALEY
(03-01-2020, 04:16 AM)john Wrote:
(02-29-2020, 09:03 PM)Reich Wrote: PMJ "Creep"  now has 75,001,138 views on YouTube now.  Does that mean that Creep is a Gold song for PMJ/Haley Reinhart?

Gold records are based on sales/streams in a single country. Since the 75 million includes many streams to locations outside the U.S. it alone wouldn't qualify the song.  However, it also has 30 million streams on Spotify, and probably quite a few on other services such as Pandora, etc. Throw in a some downloads and physical record sales by PMJ and there's a good chance it could qualify as a gold record. You know the math: 500K sales, where 150 streams count as one sale (or download).

In addition, the gold record certification must be applied for (and fees paid), which would probably be the responsibility of Scott Bradley.  He should go for it.

As of tomorrow Creep will have reached 41 million streams on Spotify for a gain of 11 million since March 1, 2020. So, over the past 14.5 months the song has averaged right around 25K streams per day on that service.

In that same time span Creep has had 19,239,647 views on Youtube, an average of about 43.6K views per day. 

Looking back just a few months to lovinghaleyr's February post, the YT views have clocked in at about 38K per day. Pretty steady.
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05-15-2021, 10:10 PM,
RE: "CREEP" - PMJ studio version with HALEY
I wonder(just curious)
Does anyone know if Haley receives any payment for all the vids she performed with PMJ,eiter for sales,for the views or streams?
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05-15-2021, 11:23 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-16-2021, 01:25 AM by Tusk.)
RE: "CREEP" - PMJ studio version with HALEY
(05-15-2021, 10:10 PM)lovinghaleyr Wrote: I wonder(just curious)
Does anyone know if Haley receives any payment for all the vids she performed with PMJ,eiter for sales,for the views or streams?

The video is officially on PMJ's website, gets views for them.  Many of Scott's singers, are usually off the radar talent w/ a few exceptions, so it's unlikely they had leverage to begin with.  I think the biggest thing Scott offered was exposure to all the subscribers and concert goers who follow PMJ.

Don't forget, "Creep's" arrangement was performed before by a different singer, so even in that respect, Haley doesn't have a say.

There was a bit of turmoil within the PMJ family last year that will require some repairing when PMJ starts going again.  To me, this is about 'compensation' which tells me some of the artists didn't think they were being compensated well enough for their contribution.

In the end, this is Scott's brain child, he promoted PMJ and its artists tirelessly, so I disagree w/ some of these PMJers who might not have as many fans if they had not signed on, done a video w/ and toured with Scott and PMJ.

My personal opinion, Scott gave Haley some credit for some of the arrangements after Creep and she was definitely a 'must see' draw when she was touring with PMJ.  It wouldn't surprise me if Haley was somehow compensated.  To be fair to Haley, even if she wasn't being 'better' compensated, she's extremely loyal, I don't think she needs more money to be loyal to Scott if he asks her for something.  Every Haley show I've seen Scott guest in, he has taken a moment to really pump the crowd up for Haley.  I think they will be friends for some time.  Haley's no fool, she knows she got opportunities from working with Scott.  They supported each other's rise in 2015 (and similarly, my channel because I lucked into posting videos of both Haley & PMJ)

Short answer, the prize for being a featured singer for Scott is the exposure and touring experience, not the money.  Scott and his team create the arrangements, do the videoing, the tour schedule, lodging, transportation, meals and entertainment.  Scott is fronting that bill, not the artists.

There's unlikely a tier system to be fair to everyone and I expect there are contracts signed.  If you do more than the normal, maybe you get paid more, like when Ariana Savalas took over for a while as the "Femcee" of the shows, maybe Emceeing shows you get paid a little more.

Haley understands the value of experience, exposure and networking.  They all open doors to more opportunities.  That's basically been her entire career.  Plant seeds and see what grows.  That's why I always talk about Haley's exceptional networking skills.

The biggest take away is exposure, especially for a cover that still gets millions of views and people talking about you over six years later, is much more valuable than a one time pay check.  That's what's called an investment that continues to pay
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05-16-2021, 09:51 PM,
RE: "CREEP" - PMJ studio version with HALEY
(05-15-2021, 11:23 PM)Tusk Wrote:
(05-15-2021, 10:10 PM)lovinghaleyr Wrote: I wonder(just curious)
Does anyone know if Haley receives any payment for all the vids she performed with PMJ,eiter for sales,for the views or streams?

The video is officially on PMJ's website, gets views for them.  Many of Scott's singers, are usually off the radar talent w/ a few exceptions, so it's unlikely they had leverage to begin with.  I think the biggest thing Scott offered was exposure to all the subscribers and concert goers who follow PMJ.

Don't forget, "Creep's" arrangement was performed before by a different singer, so even in that respect, Haley doesn't have a say.

There was a bit of turmoil within the PMJ family last year that will require some repairing when PMJ starts going again.  To me, this is about 'compensation' which tells me some of the artists didn't think they were being compensated well enough for their contribution.

In the end, this is Scott's brain child, he promoted PMJ and its artists tirelessly, so I disagree w/ some of these PMJers who might not have as many fans if they had not signed on, done a video w/ and toured with Scott and PMJ.

My personal opinion, Scott gave Haley some credit for some of the arrangements after Creep and she was definitely a 'must see' draw when she was touring with PMJ.  It wouldn't surprise me if Haley was somehow compensated.  To be fair to Haley, even if she wasn't being 'better' compensated, she's extremely loyal, I don't think she needs more money to be loyal to Scott if he asks her for something.  Every Haley show I've seen Scott guest in, he has taken a moment to really pump the crowd up for Haley.  I think they will be friends for some time.  Haley's no fool, she knows she got opportunities from working with Scott.  They supported each other's rise in 2015 (and similarly, my channel because I lucked into posting videos of both Haley & PMJ)

Short answer, the prize for being a featured singer for Scott is the exposure and touring experience, not the money.  Scott and his team create the arrangements, do the videoing, the tour schedule, lodging, transportation, meals and entertainment.  Scott is fronting that bill, not the artists.

There's unlikely a tier system to be fair to everyone and I expect there are contracts signed.  If you do more than the normal, maybe you get paid more, like when Ariana Savalas took over for a while as the "Femcee" of the shows, maybe Emceeing shows you get paid a little more.

Haley understands the value of experience, exposure and networking.  They all open doors to more opportunities.  That's basically been her entire career.  Plant seeds and see what grows.  That's why I always talk about Haley's exceptional networking skills.

The biggest take away is exposure, especially for a cover that still gets millions of views and people talking about you over six years later, is much more valuable than a one time pay check.  That's what's called an investment that continues to pay

Thanks Tusk for your explanation but I only was curious to know if,in addtion to the exposure and the experiences in the tours,she also earned some money since I think no other PMJ artist achieved the big diffusion for SB that she gave especially after Creep.
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05-17-2021, 03:49 PM,
RE: "CREEP" - PMJ studio version with HALEY
(05-16-2021, 09:51 PM)lovinghaleyr Wrote:
(05-15-2021, 11:23 PM)Tusk Wrote:
(05-15-2021, 10:10 PM)lovinghaleyr Wrote: I wonder(just curious)
Does anyone know if Haley receives any payment for all the vids she performed with PMJ,eiter for sales,for the views or streams?




Sadly Tusk is right.  There is very little to no payment to the PMJ singers for videos.   I really, really wish YouTube would set up a tip jar to donate to artists directly. Even if it is dimes and nickels, it would add up.

Regarding the Creep arrangement, I am pretty sure I heard Haley do a very very similar version of Creep as part of her high school jazz ensemble.  Do you think the original PMJ version was out before that?

Speaking of PMJ, they have announced a North American, European and Australian tour starting with the US this fall.  I know Haley is no longer working with them, but I thought maybe she might consider doing some dates with PMJ just to help get back in the swing of touring if she is considering her own tour maybe in 2022.  I know Haley wants to separate from PMJ as she wants to develop her own solo career, but maybe some dates this fall would be good for her, and obviously for PMJ sales.

Really excited about the new EP.  I wonder what the first single/video will be?  "Lovergirl"...???  
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05-17-2021, 11:13 PM,
RE: "CREEP" - PMJ studio version with HALEY
(05-17-2021, 03:49 PM)rmd1064 Wrote:
(05-16-2021, 09:51 PM)lovinghaleyr Wrote:
(05-15-2021, 11:23 PM)Tusk Wrote:
(05-15-2021, 10:10 PM)lovinghaleyr Wrote: I wonder(just curious)
Does anyone know if Haley receives any payment for all the vids she performed with PMJ,eiter for sales,for the views or streams?




Sadly Tusk is right.  There is very little to no payment to the PMJ singers for videos.   I really, really wish YouTube would set up a tip jar to donate to artists directly. Even if it is dimes and nickels, it would add up.

Regarding the Creep arrangement, I am pretty sure I heard Haley do a very very similar version of Creep as part of her high school jazz ensemble.  Do you think the original PMJ version was out before that?

...

Haley performed with the Wheeling High School Jazz Combo at the Midwest Clinic on Dec 15, 2015. After the PMJ version was a hit.

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05-18-2021, 10:53 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-20-2021, 05:15 AM by Tusk.)
RE: "CREEP" - PMJ studio version with HALEY
(05-17-2021, 03:49 PM)rmd1064 Wrote: Regarding the Creep arrangement, I am pretty sure I heard Haley do a very very similar version of Creep as part of her high school jazz ensemble.  Do you think the original PMJ version was out before that?

If you read Scott Bradlee's book, you would know how that came about, Haley didn't contribute to Creep's arrangement, it was mostly Scott w/ some 'suggestions' from the first PMJ singer to cover the song (Karen Marie), which was part of some of the turmoil within PMJ I referred to earlier.  Karen believed she was due residuals for "Creep", even from Haley's 90+million view Creep.  She even posted about possible legal action vs Scott and PMJ to get that money.

Suffice it to say, she didn't go forward after talking w/ a lawyer, all she would say is make sure contracts are signed w/ any collaboration you're involved in
(IMO ludicrous because even though her version was first, if you look the video up?  Only 2.5 million views....and it was posted before Haley's 90+ million version, obviously the views came from Haley's performance and not necessarily the arrangement)

The 'issue' of rights for arrangement has not come up since as it is clear, again, that PMJ, the whole apparatus, is Scott's brain child.  Perhaps Haley has a say, but none of the other performers had near her impact, especially when your version, posted over SEVEN years ago, ONLY has 2.5 million views


As I said earlier, Haley has no claim on "Creep" as all she did was do her interpretation of Scott's arrangement, BUT there could be an argument for some of the later arrangements that Haley might've had a say in its arrangement, like for "Lovefool" which we know Haley sang when she was w/ her jam band, pre-idol.

And I say again, in their business, in any business, it's not always or only about the money, it's about opportunities and networking, creating an environment of options, and that is what Haley has done w/ PMJ and alot of her collaborations, including WCBH.  She has made real connections w/ Robert Rodriguez, she probably didn't get paid much, but she got a HUGE opportunity to take one more step towards an acting career that she has said time and again she's interested in.

It's not ONLY about the Benjamins
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05-19-2021, 12:41 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-19-2021, 12:47 AM by john.)
RE: "CREEP" - PMJ studio version with HALEY
Quote:As I said earlier, Haley has no claim on "Creep" as all she did was do her interpretation of Scott's arrangement, BUT there could be an argument for some of the later arrangements that Haley might've had a say in its arrangement, like for "Lovefool" which we know Haley sang when she was w/ her jam band, pre-idol.

Haley certainly made the song her own in so many ways. In addition to her rich vibrato, slides, yodals, and other vocal oramentation, she added scatting. That key change toward the end is not present in the original PMJ version, and it seems a significant change in the arrangement. 

Karen Marie sang Creep and mostly contributed to PMJ with the saturday morning slow jams, where she used the name POWGRL!. Her involvement in PMJ limited and occurred when it was a fledgling operation. 


214,597 views  •  Jul 19, 2014

I felt bad for Karen as she got caught up in a cultural zeitgeist and imaged an outsized role for herself in the ultimate succes of PMJ. She never performed on stage with PMJ and stopped working with Scott early on. She contributed nothing to the group's rise in popularity. And I suspect that many of the views of her version of Creep spin out directly from the popularity of Haley's version (as well as the overall success of the endeavor).

I resent her rantings toward Scott and the minimizing of Haley's accomplishment with Creep and Haley's role in PMJ's success, which is implicit in Karen's claims.
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05-19-2021, 02:25 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-24-2021, 02:04 PM by Tusk.)
RE: "CREEP" - PMJ studio version with HALEY
(05-19-2021, 12:41 AM)john Wrote: I resent her rantings toward Scott and the minimizing of Haley's accomplishment with Creep and Haley's role in PMJ's success, which is implicit in Karen's claims.

It was definitely an ugly moment in time for her.

Since we knew of him, in my meetings and conversations w/ Scott, he has ALWAYS been a promoter of every one of his artists, always willing to give a no-name w/ talent an opportunity to shine and mature by having competitions to be able to perform w/ PMJ.

That's the thing people should understand about the workings of PMJ.  It was never meant to have permanent 'stars' in the 'system' other than Scott.  People want to see Haley and Morgan perform w/ them again (sometimes they'll return for special appearances), but then there would be no room for new comers.  That just illustrates what Scott intended w/ PMJ, it was an avenue for exposure, for new acts to feel what it's like to garner a big fan base, to go on tour, maybe their first.  It's not meant to have a Superstar that took all the stage time.  I once told Scott he was like the 'Dick Clark' of this century the way he introduced new talent to the masses and that made him smile.

Back to my OG point, Scott and Haley's time w/ PMJ, especially w/ Creep, was an intrinsic part of Haley getting the "Can't Help Falling in Love" advertising project.  They contacted Scott about Haley due to Creep.  W/O 'Creep' Haley may never have got the opportunity for CHFIL, she wouldn't have been on their radar.  CHFIL was the reason Better went from an EP to Haley's first album after Interscope, her first headlining tour and the humongous success giving Haley her first Platinum single.

Networking, relationships, options and opportunity....these are often more valuable than $$

Haley has always been about planting seeds of opportunity, not about money, she knows her self worth and the importance of networking and leaving a positive impact on every project she works on, because it leads to more opportunity.  Those of us who've followed Haley from the beginning have seen this in action her entire professional career
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