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2021 EP
02-08-2022, 11:50 AM, (This post was last modified: 02-08-2022, 12:00 PM by rmd1064.)
#81
RE: 2021 EP
So Haliens, I wanted to invite a discussion on what we expect from Haley’s EP.  As you know, an EP is usually 6 or 7 songs.  So let’s say 7 songs.

So far, we are sure of three songs: “Roll The Dice” “Up In The Air” and “Lover Girl”.   “Lover Girl” was leaked so there is no real confirmation of it.  But after that, there may be three or four new songs.

Any guesses?  I am thinking maybe one song is a cover.  She did “Sweet Home Chicago”, “Age of Aquarius” and other things in the past year.  Maybe they are teasers? 

Also, let us hope that Haley gets a band together and does a tour.  I think she can sell out small to mid size theaters given her rising popularity. 

What I wish is that she had a seasoned marketing and promotion team to work with to get tour advertising, radio guest spots, TV appearances, etc.   Look at this 25+ tour date concert schedule that Lauren Alania is doing. (https://www.laurenalainaofficial.com/sho...ficial.com).  This is what Haley deserves to be doing.

That has to me been frustrating about Haley.  I know she wants to be SO independent, but at some point, she needs to better embrace the industry and how it works-- if she really wants to grow in popularity. And get that Grammy she wants.  She is so much better than all these pop tarts on the charts.

Also, no advertising gigs in a long time.  She has done the huge Extra Gum ad, Bank of America, Mazda—heavy hitters, but then nothing.    She is getting some of her music in films and TV, but not much.  Maybe she is focused on acting more these days?  Who knows. 

My wish---whatever happens, I hope to see her on stage, rocking a venue, with that gorgeous voice and a hot band sometime this spring and summer.
Reply
02-08-2022, 06:20 PM,
#82
RE: 2021 EP
So here's my thoughts on our MIA singer...

I say with all my heart that she's been MIA on social media for a month because well holiday season and all.

But it's the 2nd week of Feb and we have no updates on this EP YET.

I think Off The Ground, and Roll The Dice are confirmed.

As for the rest of the EP (or album) I have no idea.

I just want this woman to tour and with Covid making things hard IDK what plans she has for 2022, but if she doesn't tour there will be a ton of people (Myself included as I've never seen her solo stuff live.) who will be disappointed.

Also. The lack of fans (Except for the usual.) interacting with her posts and talking Haley online has gone down.

PMJ won't be around forever. The views may be so what? You can't live off of YouTube comment sections forever.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh. I'm just being real here.

Also. Any wonder as to why she redid her official website and then ignored updating it with Off The Ground's single release?

SIGH. That's me being an unimportant frustrated Halien!
Reply
02-08-2022, 10:05 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-09-2022, 07:11 AM by Tusk.)
#83
RE: 2021 EP
(02-08-2022, 06:20 PM)KelseyW. Wrote: I just want this woman to tour and with Covid making things hard IDK what plans she has for 2022, but if she doesn't tour there will be a ton of people (Myself included as I've never seen her solo stuff live.) who will be disappointed.


Avril Lavigne
Aerosmith
Elton John
Måneskin
The Fugees
Adele
Rage Against the Machine
Roddy Ricch
Dirty Honey and Mammoth
Blossoms
Jason Isbell
The BPM Festival Costa Rica
Billy Joel
Rina Sawayama
64th Annual Grammy Awards
Los Temerarios
Carlos Vives
David Lee Roth


One major difference between these artists and Haley?  Most of these have HUGE financial backing.

As an Independent Artist, how much money do you think Haley lost when the Pandemic wiped out TWO tours, one in Europe?  Do you think maybe she might be a little gun shy to invest in setting up a third tour?  How much more devastating if she had to cancel a third?  As an INDEPENDENT artist who is there to financially protect her investment?  

Last year in one of the few times I got to have a somewhat extended conversation w/ her, I suggested maybe that in the down time she could put together a "Greatest Hits" type album, w/ all the singles not attached to an album.... The Eagles, ABBA are two bands who found a HUGE resurgence when they issued their greatest hits album.  Haley told me that wasn't possible because each single is contractually tied, that she wouldn't have control in order to self publish them until the publishing contracts of each had expired...maybe she'd do something like that years down the line.

Another time I lucked into a small conversation, more recently, I told her I'm hoping the delay of the EP is because she changed her mind, like "Better", she might add more songs and make the EP a full LP.  She said "I Wish!" but it's been more difficult to produce the album overseas w/ Anders & Tinsek in Sweden than they anticipated....  Unfortunately, OTG won't be an LP, that the hold up is producing the EP long distance.  

(Anders posted in his Instagram story that Today is the TWO YEAR ANNIVERSARY of his flying out of LA to Sweden, anticipating to come back to the US three weeks later "lol" )

You mention the pandemic...a world wide pandemic that has gone on for two years and counting.  If those HUGE names w/ financial backing had to scrap the tours including all the money invested in venue, merch, marketing etc what chance does an independent artist have that's already 'loss' from TWO tours?

She's an independent artist, which means financial set backs hurt even more and are hard to come back from.... I get you're frustrated, but do you really think this is what Haley wants?  The website was set up anticipating a new EP to promote, possibly a tour, but HUGE acts are STILL cancelling tours into 2023...what makes you think Haley can avoid what these acts can't?

All we can do is wait and hope for the best, that a once in a millennia world wide event will eventually come to an end,  because I'm pretty dang sure Haley wants to tour and do the thing she loves pretty badly too....
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02-09-2022, 10:30 AM,
#84
RE: 2021 EP
Hi Tusk.  I agree with you that this past two years has reeked havoc on concert tours for many artists.  I actually had tickets to see the band Guster, and their tour was cancelled as well.  However, there are plenty of artists touring right now in small clubs and venues.  The calendar at local venues in Pittsburgh such as Mr. Smalls and Club Cafe are filled several nights a week.  I am hopeful that once Haley releases the EP, she will put together a 20 city tour, perhaps this summer and fall.
 
However, there are things she could be doing now.  For example, her web site.  As Kelsey pointed out, her last single/video “Up In The Air” is not even posted.  The store has no merchandise for sale.   The “Recent Activity” section features no new photos in the past six months.  Keeping that site up to date should be easy to do.

I think we all want to see Haley succeed as she is maybe the greatest female singer of our generation. But I think perhaps she needs to welcome some help—management, promotion, marketing, social media etc.  She can remain “independent” but work with others to support and grow her career.  She says many labels offered her deals and she turned them all down.  But she also said that there are new business models out there that she might consider.  I am hoping she does.
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02-09-2022, 11:09 AM, (This post was last modified: 02-09-2022, 11:22 AM by Tusk.)
#85
RE: 2021 EP
(02-09-2022, 10:30 AM)rmd1064 Wrote:  
However, there are things she could be doing now.  For example, her web site.  As Kelsey pointed out, her last single/video “Up In The Air” is not even posted.  The store has no merchandise for sale.   The “Recent Activity” section features no new photos in the past six months.  Keeping that site up to date should be easy to do.

Business 101  
No money coming in, no money going out....

IF the plan for the web site was in support of all that entailed w/ a new EP and tour, how does one pay for merch and someone to manage the site let alone the fan stuff when you have no idea when you'll be able to tour etc?  In two weeks?  In six months?  In a year?  two more years?  Do you continue paying into something, paying someone over XXXXX months/years w/o knowing when you can kick start what you were planning?

I don't understand why this is hard to get?  How does the economics work when you haven't the money coming in to pay for this?

We know Haley isn't the most technologically proficient, do we expect her to run her website by herself?  Does the merch grow on trees, just pick them off the branches when there's an order?  Will people suddenly work for free for you w/o knowing when they might get paid?

She has been stalled for TWO years... She was on the precipice, that is, has already invested $$ for TWO tours that she lost lord how much on....and we expect her to wring blood from a stone?

Try Paying for a big two-three week vacation, losing that money, then have no idea when your next big income comes in from that raise you were promised, you have some savings but unforeseen circumstances resulted in you not knowing when you can work again...

Do you then go out and spend like you still have income?

Let's not forget potential lost income for whatever else Haley had planned in the last two years, not only the EP and tour, she likely had two years of potential income and opportunities lined up that the pandemic wiped out ..She lost all that potential as well....
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02-09-2022, 12:01 PM,
#86
RE: 2021 EP
Tusk.  The idea is she purchases merch (say shirts) at X and sells it at Y for a profit.  She then makes money.  That is how it works.  That is Business 101.

Haley obviously is not broke.  She has income (from F is For Family, Spotify, Amazon, iTunes, private gigs, etc.) and she did release two videos in the past six months.  Producing those videos was not free.

But forget merchandise.  She could simply update her site with activity, recent photos, etc and put her latest video up.  Managing a web site is pretty easy to do.  I do it via WIX for some projects I am working on.  She does not need income for that.

I guess that is where frustration lies in that there are things she could be doing.  Why not a STAGE IT show to raise funds if she needs them?  What happened to her Subscription service—it says “Coming Soon” for at least six months?    Anyway, this is not a bash Haley text, just a hope that she gets back into the game a little more.
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02-09-2022, 04:16 PM,
#87
RE: 2021 EP
Ok. Wowzers.

I'm not critiquing Haley's business practice right now. lol

For starters. I know she's an indie artist. None of us know how much she makes a year on merch, music sales, and past tours.

How much did the Off The Ground and Roll The Dice videos cost to make? We'll never know but this is giving me "Better" era and Show Me Your Moves era where fans funded a video for her.

There's a lot she could even ask FANS to do. Hell. She doesn't have to pay someone  to run her official website!

Running a merch store (Where ALL of her merch sold out and hasn't been restocked.) and an official site is indie artist business 101 right there!

If she relied on social media and YouTube alone that won't get her to where she wants to be. It will help, but not in the long run.

Off topic, but I know I'm not big in the Haley fan community. I've never seen her live outside of the Idol tour in 2011, but you all know how bad I want to see her and meet her.

I think she could even hire fans to run her site. Moderate it, update it with photos and videos.

So much non music/EP work could've been done in 2021 to the present. Obviously everyone in the touring industry is suffering right now. It's a business risk you got to take.

I'm not trying to start shiz or make fans angry. Or heck. Have Haley jump on this site and see my comments and make her upset.

I guess I'm just frustrated by fandom silence. Because heck Tusk... Who besides the Haley fans site, the Haley Reinhart news site, and your YouTube videos is talking Haley on social media?

Again. Not trying to make anyone mad here. Or even start a back and forth discussion.

But we are allowed to criticize musicians. Not to be jerks of course, but to help them and create a fandom community.

Haliens have been around for almost 11 years. In that time Haley's accomplished TONS of great things.

I was just annoyed at the lack of updates, and the silence. I did not know her EP producers where overseas. That does make things hard to work on...

I guess in the end. I'm just a vocal fan who cares. 

I know both of you are excellent fans. 

I guess we are all just annoyed/fed up with such a talented singer having to work so hard and then not get the recognition she deserves. That we can agree on at least!
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02-09-2022, 05:24 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-09-2022, 06:48 PM by Tusk.)
#88
RE: 2021 EP
(02-09-2022, 12:01 PM)Uh rmd1064 Wrote: Tusk.  The idea is she purchases merch (say shirts) at X and sells it at Y for a profit.  She then makes money.  That is how it works.  That is Business 101.

Haley obviously is not broke.  She has income (from F is For Family, Spotify, Amazon, iTunes, private gigs, etc.) and she did release two videos in the past six months.  Producing those videos was not free.

But forget merchandise.  She could simply update her site with activity, recent photos, etc and put her latest video up.  Managing a web site is pretty easy to do.  I do it via WIX for some projects I am working on.  She does not need income for that.

I guess that is where frustration lies in that there are things she could be doing.  Why not a STAGE IT show to raise funds if she needs them?  What happened to her Subscription service—it says “Coming Soon” for at least six months?    Anyway, this is not a bash Haley text, just a hope that she gets back into the game a little more.

In ten years, when all was running as it should, did she ever do any of this?  She acknowledges she's not technically savvy, you can't assume she understands what you understand, we all have our strengths and weaknesses, technology, ie running a web site, is not hers.  Just because you might understand, doesn't mean she wouldn't get frustrated w/ it... 

Lest I remind you how difficult it was in the first place to get her on social media....We don't remember the silent times pre-PMJ when we had to rely on Casey's snapchats to get ANY news about Haley?  (Haley had snapchat too, but only her friends, family and associates could see it, not until she started doing Instagram more frequently did she start sharing stories behind the scenes w/ us)

My brother gets frustrated because I'm unable to do 'office work', I don't have the mental makeup to do what most office workers do, but give me something like doing recipes, crafting, design, doing something creative, then, yes, I can more than help you, but ask me to do spreadsheets on Quickbooks or other accounting software?  I'm lost.  That's why I'm responsible for the manufacturing part of our family business.  My brother on the other hand can't do what I do, he's great at administrative/office tasks.

We all have our strengths and weaknesses, NONE of us is good at everything.  Haley's strengths are Heavily on the creative side and we're well aware of where she's least comfortable...those who wonder why she's not active on social media have forgotten the months of silence after she was dropped from Interscope... Or maybe it was so long ago, some have forgotten.  At least she's active on Instagram, back then we got our social media fix via Casey's snapchat, for goodness sakes.  

Besides liking Casey as a performer, I will ALWAYS appreciate how he brought Haley to us via his social media, how he slowly pulled Haley out of hiding to perform small shows at Room 5/Hotel Cafe, until she got on her feet, then PMJ came along... You don't remember any of that?  Without Casey's help, Haley might have taken even longer to get going again and we'd get NO updates via social media because she just didn't do it back then.

She hasn't done Stageit since the October one in 2013, even then it wasn't a solo show, she partnered up w/ Casey, that's almost 9 years ago, clearly it's not something she likes doing, whether she needs the money or not.  

It's been TWO years of lost businesses, including any she had planned.  Her EP is delayed, anything associated w/ it (The Website, Merch store, fan club) has to wait, we have no idea what she's had to deal w/ because Haley's one of those that likes to put on a happy face.

From new fans I understand, but from fans who were around when we waited for Casey's updates to get ANY news on Haley AT ALL, I don't understand the insistence she do things she's clearly not comfortable doing ..... we've all seen it, so has she all of a sudden become a tech/web/sales wiz?

We love Haley for her singing, personality and performance ability, not because she's an incredible sales manager and a wiz at web sites....

Honestly, I'm not upset at anyone, just confused at the suggestions w/ our long history of seeing Haley as a public person and how she conducts her career.  I don't know what Haley feels or thinks, she's pretty private, but don't think for a second she wouldn't rather be out there performing and meeting us and singing her songs... posting this stuff assumes she's not frustrated how much the pandemic has affected her
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02-09-2022, 06:40 PM,
#89
RE: 2021 EP
From 2013-2016 I wasn't as active in the Haley fandom, because I suffered a mental health episode.

So no. Not all of us remember the silent times, but I remember it was a miracle if she tweeted at all.

I'm very grateful for her YouTube performances and Instagram updates.

I just wish I could fund something, pay for something, just help her out. I don't know.

I'll shut up and be silent if need be. I just have to be patient.

OH. And unrelated. Not comparing but Kris Allen, Maddie Poppe, and others have toured in the last year. They maybe Idol winners, but they're both indie now.

So yeah...

You got to spend money to make money. 

Also. My favorite band Hanson (after years of me begging they leave Pittsburgh behind and come to my local area of Greensburg) finally listened and are doing a show 15 minutes from my home in July.

It's in a small theater, but still. I'd kill for Haley to have that kind of audience and that kind of gig.

My silly frustrations aside. I'm glad Haley is coming back slowly online. That's good news at least.
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02-09-2022, 07:03 PM,
#90
RE: 2021 EP
I recently had a conversation w/ a Halien, noting less Halien activity on Twitter.  He made an important observation.  Most of the big Twitter activity after Idol was from young fans, Rachel, Avelene, Kindred...many of them were in their early teens, adept at a new social media platform called Twitter.  Well, those fans have all grown up, graduated, started careers, 'moved on'.  A natural thing....

Where I get my "Halien fix" is now on Youtube.  I still get a thrill talking to new fans on Youtube.  I comment on channels for music lovers like the Charismatic Voice and Rick Beato, and sometimes mention Haley.  Beato made a video about how he believes the music industry is dying, that being independent, you have so many more opportunities to self promote, not relying on the labels, so obviously related to Haley's own career path, so I talk about it on his comments...sometimes that's enough to perk someone's attention and checks out my channel...

Quote:Carl Varady@GuteisFinger·19h
Replying to @HaleysTusk
Amazing that there's such talent out there and we have WAP and Ed Sheeran as top tunes on Spotify.  I think I got the Haley Reinhart channel from your comment on a Rick Beato video.  Been a looooooong meandering day.

I helped an overseas fan connect w/ a long time Halien that needed money so parted ways w/ some of his merch (so it didn't go to a reseller, from a fan to a fan)

Quote:Mildred Alexandre Ramirez Alonso 2 days ago

Thank you so much for this post! I am going to own my first Haley Reinhart merch thanks to this - beyond excited!? Appreciate all your efforts supporting Haley ?

So there's still enthusiasm for Haley and her music, it's just the age of Haley's new fans have gotten older and is now on Youtube.  Daily, I try to slip in Haley in my comments when appropriate, that sometimes draws new fans and they begin their descent into the Haley video Rabbit Hole.

Another place I get my Halien fan fix is at shows, I love after shows when new fans come to talk to me about finally getting to see Haley perform live.  At the Christmas show, one fan came to thank me for letting them know about the show on my channel...

So on a personal end, I still get my Halien fan fix, it's just now on Youtube, not Twitter.

I'm sure when it's safe and sane to tour again, Twitter activity will rise.  In the mean time, new Haley fans are still created every day, whether from my channel, my comments or reaction videos of Haley's videos....
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