Something tells me we'll never see Haley in a performance like this:

Thank Goodness. It think this would make Billy Ray Cyrus roll over in his grave if he was dead!

MJ posted this, from 2008:

Ugh.

I thought pop stars of my generation were better, but I also thought I was just being biased. Then I saw this. She compared herself to Britney earlier. No. Brit's not a singer either, but she actually owned her sexuality and was a performer. She knew the line, maybe stuck a foot over the line..she didn't act like that. (in her prime, pre break down.)

And then Justin Timberlake decided to show everyone what talent looks like.

Gaga's still pretty entertaining at least. But I like old school Gaga. She used to have a subtle message/point to what she was doing. And if you didn't get it, than too bad for you. Old school Gaga I could break down and show people why she was talented. Now it's clearly just for attention.

And Katy Perry is adorable.

Quote:Singer Kelly Clarkson (@kelly_clarkson): Just saw a couple performances from the VMA's last night. 2 words... #pitchystrippers

The head of A&R from Atltantic (that Haley had dinner with awhile back):

Quote:Alex Wilhelm ‏@alexswilhelm 1h

Just cause you can gain a quick sales boost through a trashy performance, doesnt mean you should do it. It's a marathon, not a sprint! #VMAs

well.. hehe in the Appropriate setting - I like strippers... I even admit to using my Tivo super-slo-motion and freeze frame to check out Gaga's back side during the pirouettes she did.

BUT there is a difference between Racy, lusty, and lascivious (perhaps many early Beyonce, Shakira, and at time Mariah videos) and just plain simple vulgarity without any remotely titillating aspect to it. The way Miley held the chinzy soprts-fan prop to her groin like as a, erm, phallic appendage just has no "charm" (!) lto it anywhere

.... the other strippers in the cheapest strip club would run Miley out of the place for lack of any talent at the profession

and it's even worse to see the most vulgar stuff marketed to the young teens that watch it.

---

Quote:Gaga's still pretty entertaining at least. But I like old school Gaga. She used to have a subtle message/point to what she was doing. And if you didn't get it, than too bad for you. Old school Gaga I could break down and show people why she was talented. Now it's clearly just for attention.

I agree with 85% of your sentiment. The sardonic social commentary was perhaps less than Papparizi and Pokerface and the melody still sounds pretty darn simple after the first few lessons.

However, I felt like there was more to the Dance act than just the strip part ...it had me contemplating it like I might a modern painting in some ways. Was it a reference to the existentialism in Alice in Wonderland . The first outfit did seem referential to the Queen of Hearts and was constuming pruposfully referencial to an Editorial/Advant Garder/Couture look? transformed into what might have been evocative of office attire(? shoulder padded blue Jacket and skirt? maybe a stretch I agree), down to naked minimalism ? Whether accomplished or not, I will give credit for an effort to have a cerebral overlay.. over her(gaga's) strip show.

The lyrics are a bit introspective auto biographical perhaps too ...
NOT too special but at least there are interesting allusions toward ones self perception and even a few references to notions of art and degnerativism (perhaps quite Telling of Miley's predicament? )

Verse 1)

I stand here waiting for you to bang the gong
To crash the critic saying, "Is it right or is it wrong?"
If only fame had an I.V., baby could I bear
Being away from you, I found the vein, put it in here

refrain:
I live for the applause, applause, applause
I live for the applause-plause
Live for the applause-plause
Live for the way that you cheer and scream for me
The applause, applause, applause

Verse 2)

I've overheard your theory "nostalgia's for geeks"
I guess sir, if you say so, some of us just like to read
One second I'm a Kunst, then suddenly the Kunst is me
Pop culture was an art, now art's a pop culture in me

Song ends with : A-R-T-P-O-P

Kunst reference - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_art

Pop Art is a nuanced term for those that study social and art history as well - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop_art

My intent isn't to give Gaga -too- much credit.. but I think the "just for attention" line might be a bit unfair towards her intentions...even if the actual product falls short of her intentions.

My thing with Gaga is really, I think she's been explaining herself too much. I guess her nuttiness just doesn't feel as genuine as it once did. (I also don't think the songs were as good as they once were. But I'll certainly give her album a try.)

I think Gaga is a talented musician. She really does have a great voice. (I'm a sucker for those voices with jazz influences..) Her performance with Elton John a few years ago was fantastic. And her theatrics, choreography and staging are entertaining and different.

And she's smart. Very smart. So you are probably correct. Perhaps I just prefer her commenting on the world around her (her first two albums were about fame and fame culture. The Born this way album..although I didn't like the songs as much, was brilliant lyrically.) Rather than herself.

I guess she's just missing something for me. Not that...I was never a huge huge fan..I guess I just find her entertaining, and I respect her a lot as a musician and a writer. I'm not a lyric person (I'm a sound person), but what she does with lyrics (and what pop music lets her get away with) is fantastic. I just hold her to a higher standard..than say..Miley Cyrus.

Also..I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for how she treated Haley. You could tell Haley was her favorite, (which probably meant a lot to Haley seeing as how Haley was being treated..) and it was cool of her to let Hales release the "You and I" single before Gaga had done so.

(08-26-2013, 05:36 PM)mercfan3 Wrote: My thing with Gaga is really, I think she's been explaining herself too much. I guess her nuttiness just doesn't feel as genuine as it once did. (I also don't think the songs were as good as they once were. But I'll certainly give her album a try.)

I think Gaga is a talented musician. She really does have a great voice. (I'm a sucker for those voices with jazz influences..) Her performance with Elton John a few years ago was fantastic. And her theatrics, choreography and staging are entertaining and different.

And she's smart. Very smart. So you are probably correct. Perhaps I just prefer her commenting on the world around her (her first two albums were about fame and fame culture. The Born this way album..although I didn't like the songs as much, was brilliant lyrically.) Rather than herself.

I guess she's just missing something for me. Not that...I was never a huge huge fan..I guess I just find her entertaining, and I respect her a lot as a musician and a writer. I'm not a lyric person (I'm a sound person), but what she does with lyrics (and what pop music lets her get away with) is fantastic. I just hold her to a higher standard..than say..Miley Cyrus.

Also..I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for how she treated Haley. You could tell Haley was her favorite, (which probably meant a lot to Haley seeing as how Haley was being treated..) and it was cool of her to let Hales release the "You and I" single before Gaga had done so.

I'm with you on all of that. I'm not sure these songs are musically intersting which of course, is a 100% requirement. I just wanted to give her credit for being smart as you have above.

I also truly appreciated her treatment of Haley I hadn't thought much of Lady Gaga as a person (one way or another) until then. Gaga's duet with Tony Bennett and his impressions of her made me open my mind about her too.

For the benefit of any that enjoy it.. I didn't ever listen closely enough to it until this medley on "The Sing Off" (boy I reference that show a lot, don't I ?

Everyone needs to watch the Sing-Off this fall when it comes back !

Well it wouldn't be the VMAs without controversy. Personally I don't see much difference between what Miley did and what Madonna used to do in the 80s/90s or some of Britney Spears or Kylie Minogues and even katy perry and gaga's past performances. They're all trashy to me, different levels of trashy maybe, but still trashy.

It's a talent level thing.

Britney can/could dance and put on a performance. People always said Britney lacked talent, but that wasn't true. She was an entertainer, a performer..a dancer. And she was a fantastic one. Watch Britney's "Oops I Did It Again" VMA performance versus this Miley mess.

Same as Madonna and Gaga and Katy. (Although I don't think I'd ever consider Katy trashy. She's more of the "look at the cute sexual innuendo I'm making. TeeHee* type, to be honest.)

I don't have a problem with "trashy"..it's just there has to be more too it than just the trashiness. And quite frankly, Britney, Gaga, Katy, and Madonna are four women who understood their sexuality, and own it. Something Haley actually does (although she doesn't take it as far as Britney, Madonna, or Gaga do. It's hard to tell with Katy..as she's sort of cartoony.)

I agree that Miley was attempting to start her grown up image. She just doesn't know what that is. She isn't a good dancer/performer. She isn't a good song writer (as I don't believe she writes them) and she isn't a good singer. Jury is out on whether she's a business woman like Madonna and Gaga, but seems like she's taking the "all attention is good attention" mantra.