Quote: if a song has words, a singer should sing them the way I expect them to be sung!

(07-15-2015, 12:39 AM)Miguel Wrote:

Quote: if a song has words, a singer should sing them the way I expect them to be sung!

Sounds like that person sings in a choir High expiations? Hales has her own style and lots of people love it.

(07-15-2015, 12:49 AM)midnightblues Wrote:

(07-15-2015, 12:39 AM)Miguel Wrote:

Quote: if a song has words, a singer should sing them the way I expect them to be sung!

Sounds like that person sings in a choir High expiations? Hales her own style and lots of people love it.

In my opinion, her amazing voice is more than just a mere means to sing text - it is an instrument working (mostly) with text, and produces the music from so many angles and possibilities. She flows with the music and shapes it, she doesn't just perform it. That's why she is an artist and not just a singer. And this is where she's at right now.

There'll always be the nitpicky who know exactly how they think the edges of lawns should be cut (which they can do, but in their own yards). Just my opinion ...

(07-15-2015, 01:19 AM)XAtlantic Wrote: In my opinion, her amazing voice is more than just a mere means to sing text - it is an instrument working (mostly) with text, and produces the music from so many angles and possibilities. She flows with the music and shapes it, she doesn't just perform it. That's why she is an artist and not just a singer. And this is where she's at right now.

There'll always be the nitpicky who know exactly how they think the edges of lawns should be cut (which they can do, but in their own yards). Just my opinion ...

Yes. This enunciation issue keeps coming up in the comments and I like hearing peoples reactions to it. Back in the day when you couldn't just google the lyrics to songs I recall being puzzled as to the exact lyrics in lots of popular songs. I don't think that was uncommon and people didn't bitterly complain about it even when they acknowledged not making out the lyrics because of the way the vocalist sang them. Suddenly it is this big issue to lots of people listening to Haley's PMJ work.

Perhaps many of the comments come from people who listen to music and singers of a certain type -- where diction is highly valued. Some of it is the influence of prior comments I'm sure. And some of it may have to do with qualities of Haley's style they may not like that end up described as poor enuciation, but really have to do with more than that.

But I like your manicured lawn with cut edges metaphor, XAtlantic. I was thinking about that as I read this part of the YT comment I posted:

Quote:Painters still need to paint something, sculptors still need to sculpts, if a song has words, a singer should sing them.

Painters do need to paint something, but they need not always stay inside the lines.

One can paint like this (good diction)


But others choose this (I can see Haley's style a bit)


Or paint by numbers (a risk I think if one were overly focused on the enunciation)

I love the second painting! OMG!

^^ Nice analysis John. People doing paint-by-numbers aren't truly artists...more like wannabe karaoke singers or Idol tryouts that don't get past the judges. Haley interprets vocals like Van Gogh / Monet / Dali / Picasso interpret art.

Haley's enunciation is just a musical style.

I pointed out in a different thread, Amy Winehouse drops consonants like its her job. Adele doesn't drop them, but they are almost a whisper they aren't heard very well. (Haley does this often too.)

Billie Holiday did. Louis Armstrong did. Etta James did. Ray Charles did. B.B. King slurred his words. (He had too much space between them to drop the consonants.) Nina Simone slurred her words. They all had "different" pronunciation.

I could continue, but what you find is that artists who are a combination of blues/jazz/soul had a tendency to do this. (Not all of them, for instance, Ella does not.)

It's a genre thing. There are jazz singers like Frank Sinatra, who sang standards. But that's not really what Billie, Louis, Etta, Ray, B.B. King etc..were. As I said, they seemed to be a blues/Jazz/soul/R&B combo. And the pronunciation/dropping of consonants seems to have its roots in blues. (Interestingly, Haley doesn't drop consonants when she's singing classic rock. )

The reason is simple. The sound the vocal is making is more important than the often repetitive lyrics. For instance, in "The Thrill Is Gone"..how important is it really to hear the lyrics 100% clearly? It's pretty much the same throughout..And the feeling the sound gives the listener is what's important. You can take a word and sing it 100 different ways, and it can give the listener 100 different feelings. That's what is important here.

People who value lyrics (country fans) or people who were part of a chorus (because you are taught that diction matters there..and it obviously does..you can't have a chorus full of people slurring their lyrics and dropping consonants. )

It's also another example of criticism of "black music." Yes, now the artists most likely to drop consonants are those with a throwback blues/jazz/soul style..but they are emulating iconic black musicians. It's just like the criticism of belting. Or melisma. Or pronunciation. Or growling. Or.."Sounds like a goat.."

It's not wrong. It's a style decision. Does anyone really think that Haley is not capable of finishing the word or pronouncing a word in a more classical way? I hope not. That makes it a choice.

To me, singing is art. The only time it's done wrong is when it's sharp or flat and technical ability is evaluated with how much control an individual has over his or her voice. Most everything else is artistic choices that people are fully able to like or dislike, but aren't "wrong."

Great post, merc. I especially appreciated your point about the "often repetitive lyrics."

PopSugar:Haley Reinhart Puts a Gorgeous Old-Fashioned Spin on "Oops! . . . I Did It Again"

Quote:Loved Haley Reinhart and Postmodern Jukebox's cover of Radiohead's "Creep"? Toss your headphones on, because your day just got so much better. The group took on Britney Spears's classic hit "Oops! . . . I Did It Again" in their signature vintage style, and it's brilliant. Watch it above!

Almost 863k views - not going to hit 1M tomorrow but still great!!

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(07-15-2015, 09:00 AM)mercfan3 Wrote: Haley's enunciation is just a musical style.

I pointed out in a different thread, Amy Winehouse drops consonants like its her job. Adele doesn't drop them, but they are almost a whisper they aren't heard very well. (Haley does this often too.)

Billie Holiday did. Louis Armstrong did. Etta James did. Ray Charles did. B.B. King slurred his words. (He had too much space between them to drop the consonants.) Nina Simone slurred her words. They all had "different" pronunciation.

I could continue, but what you find is that artists who are a combination of blues/jazz/soul had a tendency to do this. (Not all of them, for instance, Ella does not.)

It's a genre thing. There are jazz singers like Frank Sinatra, who sang standards. But that's not really what Billie, Louis, Etta, Ray, B.B. King etc..were. As I said, they seemed to be a blues/Jazz/soul/R&B combo. And the pronunciation/dropping of consonants seems to have its roots in blues. (Interestingly, Haley doesn't drop consonants when she's singing classic rock. )

The reason is simple. The sound the vocal is making is more important than the often repetitive lyrics. For instance, in "The Thrill Is Gone"..how important is it really to hear the lyrics 100% clearly? It's pretty much the same throughout..And the feeling the sound gives the listener is what's important. You can take a word and sing it 100 different ways, and it can give the listener 100 different feelings. That's what is important here.

People who value lyrics (country fans) or people who were part of a chorus (because you are taught that diction matters there..and it obviously does..you can't have a chorus full of people slurring their lyrics and dropping consonants. )

It's also another example of criticism of "black music." Yes, now the artists most likely to drop consonants are those with a throwback blues/jazz/soul style..but they are emulating iconic black musicians. It's just like the criticism of belting. Or melisma. Or pronunciation. Or growling. Or.."Sounds like a goat.."

It's not wrong. It's a style decision. Does anyone really think that Haley is not capable of finishing the word or pronouncing a word in a more classical way? I hope not. That makes it a choice.

To me, singing is art. The only time it's done wrong is when it's sharp or flat and technical ability is evaluated with how much control an individual has over his or her voice. Most everything else is artistic choices that people are fully able to like or dislike, but aren't "wrong."

I was listening to Van Morrison tonight and when I heard "I'm in heaven when you smile" I got it - prob no one really remembers that song but I was toe tapping listening ....