I have my doubts it will be on the album, first time we've seen it as a possibility. IMO I think it's a great song (then again, I'm biased, I also still like Free ), it would be a change of pace song if placed on the album. I was very surprised at the push back from fans, but I'm not sure how much of the 'disappointment' had to do that people were 'invested' in it via the crowd funding so there was more expectation on the final product?

As it turned out, Ole was still able to make money for Haley by placing SMYM...if it was on the album, it's possible it might get placed on more products. It's important to be reminded of who is putting this album out. The metrics of 'success' won't be the same as 'normal' music releases. iTunes numbers, promotion, sales and radio play will play a part, but I think Ole will look more into placing the songs on ads, in movies, on TV etc... that will be the metric that Ole will look at more than the 'normal' ones we're used to seeing for new music

(03-15-2016, 12:26 PM)JMT Wrote: Could give the SMYM video a boost.

That would be nice...for perspective, I have 8 videos with more views than SMYM :/

PS I'm hoping that we'll get to hear 'new' songs...I'd be OK if SMYM made the album, but not if it's at the expense of another 'new' song, Just my opinion

One never knows, but I tend to doubt that SMYM is on the album.

The video generated virtually no interest and the song failed to gain any traction with listeners. To add to Tusk's comment about views relative to other videos, in the more than 19 months since it's release SMYM has generated 122,347 views. If she got that number in the in first 24 hours of a PMJ video release, it would be disappointing. Many of the comments on SMYM suggest it does get some traffic from the commercial, not a lot, but it did push the video over 100K after it had been dormant for months. It has also found some interest among fans of Captain Falcon, a videogame character who taunts foes with the phrase "Show me your moves!"

Quote:I came here for Captain Falcon.
There was none.
I am disappoint.

Recall the video was feature prominently on Yahoo as it was released, apparently gaining quite a few views in the first day or two. But that publicity did not translated into fan interest. In fact, some contend that the Yahoo posting took views from the Youtube post. That makes no sense to me -- it was a positive, just as radio play is a positive. I'd be delighted if they featured her CHFIL video on Yahoo.

I do hope they put Listen on the record. They are putting CHFIL on, so it won't all be uptempo music.

It should be noted that the view count would be a completely different story had it first been placed on Youtube.... Haley told those of us who were lucky to see her backstage after her Hotel Cafe show around how many views Yahoo gained from SMYM debuting on their site (Let's just say the number might be triple what it shows now )... As Haley didn't seem at all concerned to put any effort into promoting the sales on iTunes, I imagine Haley got her 'payment' for the video via the exclusive agreement w/ Yahoo.

asked about the decision, I think she said she probably wouldn't do it differently, that she was extremely proud what she, fans and her friends were able to accomplish and that the project came out better than they could've imagined (always looking positive and forward ) She did however add, "live and learn"

If it were possible to add Yahoo's view count to Youtube's, we might be looking at SMYM's 'success' just a bit differently (things are not necessarily as they appear)

It seems that after she performed it live, the reaction from fans was more along the lines of they wished she did it that way on the video, but IMHO, Haley's a young woman, she shouldn't be 'boxed' into the 'old styles' that we've seen her perform in so well. I've often said, my favorite genre is "Haley". I'm perfectly fine with her finding her way, trying new things, including more modern genres, because, in the end, the music is all Haley, and I, for one am ready to consume what her heart, mind and musicality wants to try (I did say I'm biased )

I want Haley to find success, to be rewarded for following her instincts and that also includes trying more 'modern' styles and genres. She has plenty of time to go 'back' to Jazz and such, but she should be given opportunity to dwell in genres that might open her up to newer, younger markets, and I'm all for new fans finding more about Haley, going down the Haley Youtube "rabbit hole"

(03-15-2016, 04:09 PM)Tusk Wrote: It should be noted that the view count would be a completely different story had it first been placed on Youtube.... Haley told those of us who were lucky to see her backstage after her Hotel Cafe show around how many views Yahoo gained from SMYM debuting on their site (Let's just say the number might be triple what it shows now )...

I totally disagree with respect to the effect. What song doesn't benefit from publicity (Hint: one that people don't care about). Remember how exciting it was to see Creep and other videos get featured on big name websites. The effect was to generate interest and ulimately bring in more viewers and listeners.

What if a million viewer saw it on Yahoo? That would speak to the reach of Yahoo, not the popularity of the song. I'd say the more views the better. This is not a zero sum game where the pie is a fixed size.

What you are essentially saying is that the Yahoo video was so popular nobody was left to view it on youtube. Nonsense. Sounds like Yogi Berra logic. The Yahoo strategy was a good one, the problem was that few people liked the song.

(03-15-2016, 04:09 PM)Tusk Wrote: It seems that after she performed it live, the reaction from fans was more along the lines of they wished she did it that way on the video, but IMHO, Haley's a young woman, she shouldn't be 'boxed' into the 'old styles' that we've seen her perform in so well. I've often said, my favorite genre is "Haley". I'm perfectly fine with her finding her way, trying new things, including more modern genres, because, in the end, the music is all Haley, and I, for one am ready to consume what her heart, mind and musicality wants to try (I did say I'm biased )

I think that if SMYM is on the album, then they'd change up the arrangement somewhat vs. the video. The refrain is pretty catchy, and when I hear/see it being played on TV I get a 'boost'. To be honest, I wasn't really keen on Better when I first heard it, but it's growing on me-- and when I heard the snipped that was posted (on the online Bio) and then taken down quickly, I was really psyched for the full version.

I think she has more freedom now on album #2 to include what she wants vs. album #3, that may be affiliated/sponsored by an established record label. I hope, that if she really likes SMYM (in whatever form it might be), she'll include it on this album-- and not worry about what her fan base may have thought of it when it was released. I'm sure I'll be perfectly happy with whatever songs make her happy.

(03-15-2016, 04:55 PM)john Wrote: What you are essentially saying is that the Yahoo video was so popular nobody was left to view it on youtube. Nonsense. Sounds like Yogi Berra logic. The Yahoo strategy was a good one, the problem was that few people liked the song.

What I'm saying is initially the YT view counts contributed to the perception that the video 'failed' on some level, perhaps re-enforcing any anxiety or negativity already held by it's target audience, Haley's fans (she hardly promoted it beyond her fan base)....

If instead they saw it debuting w/ say 200K views, it's possible that it might've gathered more notice, possibly getting better reviews, gained traction and ultimately found it's niche.

As much as we love Haley for her voice and music, sometimes the round about way things have been done, might have had a negative impact.

Tastes change, timing (when/how it's released), context, perception, often contributes to how a video does. I think that's the case in this instance. Had Haley promoted it, went about it's creation in the 'normal' way, put effort into promoting and sales on iTunes, I strongly believe that SMYM had a chance of doing relatively well.

Remember, Haley didn't appear to see this project as more than a fun experiment w/ friends and to involve the fans in the making of it 'for her fans'. She did not seem to consider it's sales potential and marketability (witnessed barely effort in promotion and sales on iTunes)

Alot of Haley's fans want Haley to stay in this Jazz, 'old time' genre lane that they love her in. SMYM IMO was an attempt at doing something more modern, consistent w/ what people Haley's age enjoyed. I think a lot of the push back was due to fans not ready for Haley to step into the 21st century music industry, draw her back to the 50s-70's.

That's why I feel Haley should be allowed to explore more modern genres, more relevant to what the majority of music lovers listen to now, widen her fan base to include a younger audience

I think it's great that SMYM got placement in a commercial -- two actually, but one that gets a lot of play. The Chase commercial is fun and the music fits just right. Kudo's to ole for the placement.

I tend to think Haley is putting SMYM behind her. When was the last time she performed it live, despite the fact it is in a popular commercial?

I think Haley can appeal just fine to younger listeners -- she has lots of younger fans. But she has her sound(s) and what she likes, and I think it would be a mistake to change things to target a specific audience. Better that she just perform really good songs.

Here is a successful lane and Haley has a lot of the characteristics that would appeal...

Quote:How did Adele sell more than 4 million albums in two weeks? By captivating and energizing a "diaper-changing, lunch-packing" female audience that most artists and labels typically ignore.

As Adele continues to ­obliterate modern sales records, we need to look outside the music ­business to find ­parallels for her dominance. To whom should we compare her? Barry Bonds hitting 73 home runs, 12 more than the previous record? Squash star Jahangir Khan, who won 555 matches in a row?

The out-of-the-gate pace of 25, Adele's third album, has established her as a singer of almost freakish popularity. In her first week, Adele sold 3.38 million copies, according to Nielsen Music, a 40 percent increase from the previous debut sales record of 'N Sync's 2000 album No Strings Attached. (That was the year total album sales for the industry peaked. Adjusted for the constant deflation in CD sales since then, Billboard calculates that her 3.38 ­million copies sold equal 12.1 ­million in 2000.) 25 is also the first album to sell a million copies in consecutive weeks. "No one saw this coming," says Nielsen analyst Dave Bakula. "The highest forecast was a million short of what she sold."...

According to Nielsen, most female Adele fans are 25 to 44, with children. ...She's an outlier of outliers because she brings in people who are not regular music buyers. Maybe they haven't bought a record since Adele's 21," which has sold 11.3 million copies in the United States....

Because Adele isn't active on social media -- only six tweets in the first half of 2015 -- some observers have concluded that Twitter and Facebook are overrated as marketing tools. But Maria Bailey, author of eight books about marketing to ­mothers, says Adele's success reinforces the ­importance of social media: "Moms share, on average, six times more on social media than any other demographic. By appealing to moms, Adele had a built-in marketing machine in place." She didn't need to tweet because she had an army of ­surrogates who sense a ­kindred set of values in the singer, much as they do, says Bailey, with Etsy sellers or Jessica Alba's Honest Company products. They're happy to buy a record they love, rather than stream it, because it's a treat that's affordable, as opposed to, say, a Coach bag...

http://www.billboard.com/articles/events...ion-albums

(03-15-2016, 05:35 PM)john Wrote: she has lots of younger fans.

The majority of fans are older, I've been to many shows, even the all ages shows and you will see more grey haired fans than young fans.


The Beatles started off doing covers of their Blues Heroes, somewhere along the line, they decided to write their own songs, experimenting w/ new sounds and instruments more contemporary with their peers... in the process, they lost fans who wanted them to do the 'love me do' and "She loves you" types of songs. Eventually, they came up with Sgt Peppers, Rubber Soul even the White album....

By no means am I proclaiming Haley to be a songwriter of the caliber of Lennon and McCartney, though there's no reason to say she couldn't be. But it also illustrates that creatives need to evolve. Perhaps, initially, they gain traction by covering favorites of past generations, but it would be a HUGE disservice to not let creatives find their own voice, the voice of their generation, the voice of youth.

I think Haley has the potential to make significant impact, which comes with finding her voice and you do that by trying things out, not staying stagnant with music of the past. Creatives need the freedom to find who they are, what their voice/sound is

Remember when we found those new songs on Soundcloud? I actually heard them a couple weeks before 'everyone else' found them, my very first thought, "fans are not going to like the sound of these" even though I actually thought they were not bad... the reason I thought that they would not be received well was because thoughts of the reaction to SMYM ran through my head. It sounded too modern, too electronic, too contemporary.... Here was Haley writing newer sounding songs, something you might hear in a club and sure enough, we've heard crickets from fans in reaction after finding them.

All that being said, I'm hoping to hear newer songs on the album rather than SMYM. I think your point that SMYM is in the past is the best reason that IMO SMYM won't be on the album. If we've learned anything about Haley, it's that she will always be moving/looking forward

(03-15-2016, 04:57 PM)JMT Wrote: I think that if SMYM is on the album, then they'd change up the arrangement somewhat vs. the video. The refrain is pretty catchy, and when I hear/see it being played on TV I get a 'boost'. To be honest, I wasn't really keen on Better when I first heard it, but it's growing on me-- and when I heard the snipped that was posted (on the online Bio) and then taken down quickly, I was really psyched for the full version.

Regarding Show Me Your Moves, I agree with Tusk and doubt it will be on the CD. However, the song has strangely grown on me over time as it is a fun, upbeat song with a catchy chorus. However, my suggestion would also be to change it up as suggested above with a new arrangement using less production/dubbing and make it closer to the live versions she has done of the song. Give it a more rock and roll vibe....

(03-16-2016, 07:53 AM)rmd1064 Wrote: Regarding Show Me Your Moves, I agree with Tusk and doubt it will be on the CD. However, the song has strangely grown on me over time as it is a fun, upbeat song with a catchy chorus. However, my suggestion would also be to change it up as suggested above with a new arrangement using less production/dubbing and make it closer to the live versions she has done of the song. Give it a more rock and roll vibe....

Yes that was my thought, to change it up significantly. I listened to the video version again last night without watching the actual video-- just to hear it without being influenced by the visuals. Then I watched a live version again. I liked that one more. I think it could be made to fit the tone of the album for sure. The refrain is fun, and in the same vein as Better's.

As to Tusk's and John's discussion above about Haley going for a younger audience, I think Haley needs to follow her heart. I do think she'll be more 'respected' in the industry, get more 'buzz', and have better reviews for the album by the mainstream media (if that matters at all) if she is blazing new ground for her sound. And not giving us pure Rock, or Blues, or Jazz, etc. I think Listen Up did that to some degree.