Making it her own

[mercfan3]

Another thing to think about with Undone, is..like Free, it really doesn't represent the music in Listen Up too well.

"Oh My," "Wasted Tears" "Keep Coming Back" "Hit the Ground Running" etc..all have a certain feel to them. The retro/pinuppy style. Perhaps her disagreement went further. Perhaps with the positive reactions to Undone, Interscope wanted her to move to a more generic pop sound.

All of course just guessing because we don't know. But the situation is strange. I suppose we'll find out someday.

[Tusk]

I am of the mind that there was a conflict with Interscope regarding which song should be released as a single next, and perhaps future directions in general.

The interest in Undone generated by the movie a few weeks later may have actually stepped on Oh My! and screwed things up vis a vis Haley's wishes.

I think Haley "walks the talk" in that she is true to what she believes and what her instincts tell her. But that might have clashed with the views of the executives at Interscope. (see K'naan opinion piece in the NYT)

All conjecture, but that was kind of my feeling too. She will probably never admit to it (she rarely if ever burns bridges).

That's part of the reason I brought this thread up. "Free" and OM, in their 'album form', each had things that needed tweeking from Haley's POV, so she reworked them.

If we are to believe what we do with "Undone", will there be a time Haley revisits it and tweeks it in a way that she feels that it's a better 'fit' for her...?

Judging from "Free" and OM, there's a good chance she will

(although I do remember her talking about being put in an unfamiliar/uncomfortable place during the process of writing "Undone", that it was a struggle...so maybe not )

Maybe the solution is she gives it to someone else to perform...best of both worlds, she doesn't get forced into performing it, but can collect the royalties for it being performed by someone else

[Tom22]

A couple thoughts:

1) isn't a drop more "no new contract extension - no commitment to additional investment" NOT "getting layed off"

A contract probably lasts 1 year. There was probably an option in the contract that would have required them to make some additional expenditure or commitment to producing a second album to keep her signed.

I mean.. if it would have cost Interscope nothing to keep her signed they would have kept her signed, right?

I haven't really been able to get more information about what "dropping" means but from my real estate perspective , landlords and tenants must negotiate a new lease at the end of a term. What interscope was offering might not have been enough, or what they were demanding (a 360 contract?... who knows) was to much to commit to for Haley in return for a commitment for additional promotional expenditures.

It could also be that Interscope didn't really offer anything serious because they knew it would take more financial outlays on their part and they just didn't like the future risk/reward of additional expenditure.

At any rate, I'm not sure that a company refusing to put more money into a venture is a sign of dissing their former partner, and certainly doesn't imply a lack of musical respect in itself.

--

2) On "Free" , I can read between the words and -imagine- (not be certain) that the commitment to promoting that song was made long before the other songs were written.

The song "Free" was written by a pretty big Name song writer right ?

I can certainly imagine that a big name songwriter/produce "shops" a song around and negotiates terms for ALLOWING a musician and label to have rights to the song. "Lady gaga and taylor swift have shown some interest in putting it on their albums, what can you offer me ?" (substitute more likely names if you like)I can certainly imagine that the terms for Haley getting the song included a commitment (contractual or based upon sustaining an ongoing business relation ship with that writer/producer team) that they would have Haley release that song as her first single.

A commitment to a third party based upon what looked best the summer before the rest of the songs were written couldn't just be shrugged off because after seeing the songs they might have given an edge to another.

I just think it could be naive of us to assume that interscope did choose Free over the others instead of committing to Free earlier.

[john]

A couple thoughts:

At any rate, I'm not sure that a company refusing to put more money into a venture is a sign of dissing their former partner, and certainly doesn't imply a lack of musical respect in itself.

I think she gets respect musically but they must not see her as a good commercial prospect for them. She might do better with a smaller label that is excited to have her.

2) On "Free" , I can read between the words and -imagine- (not be certain) that the commitment to promoting that song was made long before the other songs were written.

The song "Free" was written by a pretty big Name song writer right ?

It wouldn't surprise me to learn that Free had momentum and push early on that made it the choice. The song was written by Busbee and Lucie Silvas, both experienced song writers. Busbee produced Free and other tracks on Listen Up! He co-wrote Wasted Tears and What You Don't Know. He also produced BICO, WOH, and HTGR. So he's all over this album (and he plays the "air sax" briefly on the BICO video).

[Tusk]

Tom I think we're talking two different tracks here

I'm talking about Haley making songs 'her own' reworking songs to feel comfortable with them, and her apparent opinion of "Undone"

Although, the Interscope split is relevant, it's not when it's in terms of the type of contract or whether she was beholden to whatever commitment was made previous to writing her songs. She wasn't on a 'full' contract, but a developmental one, which probably had milestones that needed to be met to move forward.

"Free" was chosen from among a group of songs offered to her while Haley was still on the AI tour. She recorded it during then too.

It wasn't given to her by some writer, she picked it out of a bunch of songs because she thought it best represented the type of style/song she wanted to produce. (She's said this several times about "Free" if you care to look back at the interviews at that time)

So your premise that there was some kind of contractual agreement that was forced upon her by a third party, I don't think is accurate. She chose it from among a bunch of songs.

That it was her first single was a matter of convenience. It was all ready to go probably before pen was put to paper on the other songs. The machinations had already begun before she got off the AI tour. It was her first single simply because it was the first song ready to go.

[john]

Haley has talked in the past about doing songs on the first take or on the same day they were written and expressed the notion that this is often the best way. Spontaneity and so forth. But the reworking of songs she has done suggests to me that it would be nice if Haley took a couple of newly written songs and performed them a few times before recording them. She has so many directions she can go with a song it might be best some of the time to try them out a bit and let the sound evolve.

[jjames865]

The premise of this thread and all of the subsequent speculation within it as to the reasons Haley and Interscope parted ways IMO speaks highly to the strong, principled young lady that Haley Effin’ Reinhart is. She is mature beyond her years.

[Tusk]

The premise of this thread and all of the subsequent speculation within it as to the reasons Haley and Interscope parted ways IMO speaks highly to the strong, principled young lady that Haley Effin’ Reinhart is. She is mature beyond her years.

I'll raise a drink to that

[Tom22]

Tusk,

Even though I haven't said it (I meant to be adding more than disputing) I think I understand you,

and agree with you 100%

Haley is evolving as an artist. We've seen all sorts of evidence of that including the great examples you pointed out. (i tried to concur that she always like to see if she can improve with the NTYH video.. or I meant to look like I was with you on that)

I agree she's pushing herself to do new things and I agree and am certain she's got even more special things in her in the future (BUT I do want to say I do think her first album was very very special too - how special some stuff she's done already wasn't a dispute but something to also be sure to value, maybe a worry of mine that she won't?

Maybe that's selfish on my part? (I don't want some songs changed more ?) Maybe it is partly a parental(like) call to "be proud of what you've done" ?(i've never met her.. I'm NOT related.. especially not a parent)

I did try to suggest, that I hoped she'd do a lot of her artistic stretching with OTHER songs and keep in mind when she'd already got something right (whether that's superb or whether that's done what can be done with a song). I know that might be hard to know exactly but that is also something to be learned by an artist in terms of their role as "entertainer" .

I meant to be more seconding your opinion that she wants to find songs and styles that go new places and reflect things she hasn't yet been able to do.
--

It is a good point that "SHE" chose Free, She did say that pretty firmly, didn't she ?

The interview also made it pretty clear "when" she chose Free. Once she chose it, I imagine that both She and Her Label had made some sort of commitment to Busbee ... sometimes those things are just based on trust and a handshake but I'm the type (and I'd imagine you are too) where a handshake and a look in the eye is almost more a commitment than a "lets see if we can work something out" From what I read that commitment (how firm we don't know) was made before she had recorded the other songs.

[john]

^ Haley says she picked Free in this video....(and rejected the rest that were sent to her)...


They bracket these videos with bits of Undone.

Free was the first song she recorded for the album and I'm sure she got a lot of positive feedback about it. A&R types probably told her "that's a single." It had the wind at it's back for sure.