Listen Up! 2013 perspective

[Tom22]

They aren't really comparable as far as exposure. This was the second (?) episode of a new show on a cable channel that once played music videos, but now seems to just broadcast low brow, limited audience shows. What's more we JUST heard about this through twitter.

Undone was used in a "major motion picture" that has a specific and focused fairly large niche market, distributed worldwide and played in theaters for weeks. The movie also had an in built market as it is part of a franchise and also built up an audience before its release.

No surprise they don't have similar results.

While Undone seems popular, it appears, Oh My has had more application/use as far as Ole has been concerned

Not directly comparable but people quickly sought out Undone -- found it. Oh My may have more commercial applications (ESPN, Gossi Girl, etc) and it has been used more than once in promotions or or other media. But it hasn't generated much interest online. VH1 is a focused niche and the opening night of the show had 2.5 million viewers. While I agree that Step Up Revolution has a much bigger audience overall, it did 11,7 million in box office the first weekend which I doubt equals near 2.5 million viewers. The pop on Undone was immediate -- but nothing for Oh My. While the movie was on "the big screen", which may have a bigger impact than TV, people can record and rewatch the VH1 show. Real Music Live was a small audience, but a focused niche, and zero interest generated.

What's funny is that I agree with both of you. You're not exactly arguing but more looking for "what's even better" . I like that both are good.

I have to say that... given how many proven superstars have their new songs fall flat when released that... well, If you can't gurantee a Mariah Carey song is a hit with promotion its sort of fantastic notion to expect a song to have popular sucess just because we personally like it. I'd call it all more a crap shot with less than 10% sucess even with a "great" song. What happens to strike an immediate chord with the public has a much to do with it's connection to a place and a time and maybe even a fashion trend (like, tight bootcut dark blue jeans are in, loose fit fatigued jeans don't sell when the opposite was true 6 years prior).

Commericial sucess of a song has little to do with promotion or quality in my opinion.. its just what filled a mood. I won't expand farther there.. but i do have some anlogies in my mind.

I'd like to point out another positive I see... and it's been said before but I'm willing to share it again.

I just don't see sucess as an artist necessarily being defined by being a name people recognize and having millions of adoring fans. I know that many artists do want to share the expressions they create with the world... but having your music heard in movies and TV and in stores or etc IS sharing that art. knowing "that's haley reinhart" has little or nothing to "that song was what i needed to hear to get a better attitude or get over xyz"

Certainly $ is an important thing too... but, from what we've heard and what we heard Mariah say on the show.. maybe song writers make far more than all but the biggest super stars. They have expressed themselves as atrists and made a bundle. It strikes me that being a household name is more about vanity than artistry or supporting yourself.

If ESPN keeps playing "hit the ground running" thats not "a step in the right direction" If she'd getting paid for that.. that is a full fledged huge success .. stand alone etc. People don't need to know it's her if its making them feel good .

I like "hit the ground running" a lot.. but... do you know what ? I think I enjoy that song far more when it is used as Part of a bigger entertainment than when I listen to it as a free standing entity. That means I think more of the song.. not less of the song when it has a great purpose!

[mercfan3]

I agree, I think Interscope should have led with Oh My, and followed it up with Undone.

"Oh My" had the potential to be a fantastic breakout song, and it would have allowed Haley to release a successful ballad.

[Tom22]

Nice tweets above.

While I like Oh My and see it's potential to be accepted.. promoting it had its complications.

The "rap" section probably would have made it a tough sale for HAC air time and I surmise AC too. While working perfectly in a dance number and with the cross cultural audience of a TV show I just don't think it would ever make the national Alice channels.

Remember also, that during that tour that the label paid for.. sending Haley and usually two or three musicians.. and kara. to so many parts of the country.. paying for airfare and lodging I'm sure and certainly some pay at least a few dollars over minimum wage ( : )) for all but Haley ..

... remember on that tour.. Haley was able to always sing 3 of her new songs. She sung wasted tears alot and once Keith joined started singing now that you're here more because it worked well for him.

On that promotional tour, it sure felt like Haley had a lot of leeway in choosing which songs to sing beyond Free . Oh my was probably a problem because of a reluctance and uncertainty of what to do with the rap.. until Lolapalooza sort of forced the issue of whether or not to skip a key song on her album. I'm sure she could have, (if she wanted) have sung Undone on those trips to a dozen plus major cities.

I'm certainly not blaming Haley but I don't think the "mistake" was all foolish thinking. Hindsight can be 20/20 and ... the complications of the second artist might have influenced plans to start with (lets save it?) then jettison it (B.o.B isn't so in any more .. not putting money into him? ).

IF haley had recorded the version with her doing the bridge IF that made it sound "non-urban" enough to get played on HAC... well, yeah.. I do think it could have been a more catchy sound for a hit.

But..

I actually think that getting on these shows is probably the way to get the song to the audience because it doesn't fit in any radio segment exactly but is appealing to lots of people. The song is getting promotion nowin maybe the promotion channel that is best for it ? (thats just a thought on it.)

[My Alter Ego]

RE: Oh My vs Undone

Real Music Live was a small audience, but a focused niche, and zero interest generated.

I wonder what would have happened if they decided to play the as yet unseen RML performance of "Undone" rather than "Oh My", and what you say about both songs' potential....
Plus the broadcast after SNL ... might that have been a bellwether moment in her career?

It would have been interesting, true, but as you have repeatedly reminded us, Tusk, Haley was reluctant to perform Undone . I wonder if RML asked Haley which song she preferred to be aired, if one had to be cut?

On the other, the information that John has presented (lack of views for "Oh My" on Youtube) does seem surprising! It is an infectious ditty!

In a way, both very real scenarios are puzzling -- at least, it is to me.

[Miguel]

The "Valentine's Day Just Got Hotter" video featuring "Oh My!" was posted to YouTube on January 28th. The view count by VD was around 700K+ (currently 739,625).

[Tusk]

It would have been interesting, true, but as you have repeatedly reminded us, Tusk, Haley was reluctant to perform Undone . I wonder if RML asked Haley which song she preferred to be aired, if one had to be cut?

On the other, the information that John has presented (lack of views for "Oh My" on Youtube) does seem surprising! It is an infectious ditty!

In a way, both very real scenarios are puzzling -- at least, it is to me.

She hasn't been subtle about her reluctance to perform Undone either, she's basically said as much.

When asked, cautiously, by the host of that private party in LA, "You can't do ....Undone...?", Haley hesitated even then, then turned to Keith to see if he knew it.
(Keith hasn't been at the keys in all of Haley's live performances of Undone. Keith did not play, I believe, it's debut performance @ Americana or her iHeart performance of it)



That being said, that performance of the song in LA was amaaaaazing, heartfelt and soaring, combined with Keith's keys on the baby grand......

When I listen to her retool "Free" from Vegas, I almost get the feeling that she is doing in that performance what she can't seem to do, organically, while performing "Undone". In the Vegas "Free" there is the longing, the sadness, heartstrings. You would think that she could pull from the same resources to perform "Undone" that way, yet, it just doesn't come easily for her.

[My Alter Ego]

It would have been interesting, true, but as you have repeatedly reminded us, Tusk, Haley was reluctant to perform Undone . I wonder if RML asked Haley which song she preferred to be aired, if one had to be cut?

On the other, the information that John has presented (lack of views for "Oh My" on Youtube) does seem surprising! It is an infectious ditty!

In a way, both very real scenarios are puzzling -- at least, it is to me.

She hasn't been subtle about her reluctance to perform Undone either, she's basically said as much.

When asked, cautiously, by the host of that private party in LA, "You can't do ....Undone...?", Haley hesitated even then, then turned to Keith to see if he knew it.
(Keith hasn't been at the keys in all of Haley's live performances of Undone. Keith did not play, I believe, it's debut performance @ Americana or her iHeart performance of it)



That being said, that performance of the song in LA was amaaaaazing, heartfelt and soaring, combined with Keith's keys on the baby grand......

When I listen to her retool "Free" from Vegas, I almost get the feeling that she is doing in that performance what she can't seem to do, organically, while performing "Undone". In the Vegas "Free" there is the longing, the sadness, heartstrings. You would think that she could pull from the same resources to perform "Undone" that way, yet, it just doesn't come easily for her.

When asked, cautiously, by the host of that private party in LA, "You can't do ....Undone...?", Haley hesitated even then, then turned to Keith to see if he knew it.

As if hoping he didn't??

Given the Youtube recording you posted, she put in a perfunctory performance of the song, which is not the Haley we know and expect. On the other hand, in listening to this again I picked up on something that MAY (don't read more into this than the speculation that it is, folks) have something to do with it.

What I hear is her having a hard time with the lower notes that are written in this song. Depending on circumstances such as how tired she might be, what she might have eaten (food may not impact her like it does me), air quality, etc., the lowest notes that she can sometimes hit can shift. The key that Undone is in, was likely written in that key for a reason. But Haley may not always be able to sing in that key. And, yes, they could change (raise) the key to one more accommodating to her range on a consistent basis, but that may not provide the melancholy sound the song is intended to have. Just a possibility...

[Tusk]

When asked, cautiously, by the host of that private party in LA, "You can't do ....Undone...?", Haley hesitated even then, then turned to Keith to see if he knew it.

As if hoping he didn't??

Not at all, I think Haley wasn't sure whether Keith did or did not know it because he hadn't performed it with her the couple other times she performed Undone live. How many times has she performed Undone live? (not counting LA)...not many (4? 5? Maybe Stairway2Halien knows). Off the top of my head, I'd guess Haley has performed Undone as many times without Keith as she has with him, if not more times without (I could be wrong)

I don't think she was looking for an 'out', just didn't know if Keith knew it well enough that he could perform it.

Keith played a 'fancier' version of the song, it had more character to it than the standard way I've heard it played for that song (don't have the words/musical knowledge to describe the way he nuanced it, I've used 'he played it with flair' but that is almost misleading and not quite right to describe it)

[My Alter Ego]

When asked, cautiously, by the host of that private party in LA, "You can't do ....Undone...?", Haley hesitated even then, then turned to Keith to see if he knew it.

As if hoping he didn't??

Not at all, I think Haley wasn't sure whether Keith did or did not know it because he hadn't performed it with her the other times she performed Undone live. How many times has she performed Undone live? (not counting LA)...not many (4? 5? Maybe Stairway2Halien knows). Off the top of my head, I'd guess Haley has performed Undone as many times without Keith as she has with him, if not more times without

I don't think she was looking for an 'out', just didn't know if Keith knew it well enough that he could perform it.

Keith played a 'fancier' version of the song, it had more character to it than the standard way I've heard it played for that song (don't have the words/knowledge to describe the way he nuanced it)

I've said it before -- Keith is just so blasted good!

[Miguel]

Where did Keith go?

He hasn't tweeted since June 11th and his last Instagram post was June 10th.

His last tweet was:

I'm done shaking hands and kissing babies

Was that his way of saying he was quitting social media?

He last posted on FB on June 20th.

https://www.facebook.com/keithphelpsmusic

He was looking for 50 shares of an image urging people to support independent artists. No one shared it.

His LinkedIn profile shows:

KEiTH PHELPS
CEO & Owner
Real Music Affiliates LLC

June 2013 – Present (2 months)

Orlando, Florida (Orlando, Florida Area)

Maybe he moved?