Finding her own way

[Miguel]

I've been thinking about making a post like this for a couple of months. But I started a new full-time job that comes with a 20-mile commute (reverse, fortunately) and haven't had the time. I still don't -- I woke up at 4 AM to work on a work project and need to revise it before tomorrow morning -- but I'm going to spit this out.

---

I know many people are disappointed that Haley hasn't toured or put out new music. Some may even be questioning whether she's truly committed to succeeding.

I think she is. I'm going to do my best to recall some things and speculate on what Haley's perspective/plan might be.

[Note: I edited this down and it's still the longest post ever on HaleyFans. You might want to skip to the synopsis at the bottom because the post is lengthy after that point as well. Seriously, it's ridiculously long.]

Haley and Interscope probably parted ways before it was officially confirmed. I'm thinking in early October.

Per F8's site: Haley performed at Room 5 in mid-October ($10 admission) and four days later held her first StageIt (from her apt). Then in mid-November she performed at the Hotel Cafe ($12.50). Early December saw her first residency at The Cosmopolitan in Las Vegas. Then a holiday StageIt show in late December. She appeared with Casey at the HOB Foundation Room in February.

There were some other dates as well. I cite these though because I think they represent something of a panicked reaction on the part of Haley. She was on her own and had to make a living.

In January we knew she was writing with Rob Kleiner and Sky. I believe in January 2013 she also visited with someone at Fox or Idol. She then went to Singapore in March 2013 for Fox International. (Tip Cup, Celebrity Fight Night and Million $ Quartet were this month too).

Sometime around here is when she recorded "Black Velvet."

April 2013 was her big international jaunt. The Camp Foster Festival and then Malaysia, Bali, X-Factor Indonesia and Jakarta for Fox International.

I think she got a nice payday from Fox International and that gave her some breathing room.

She returned and we saw her in the Idol audience because she was again visiting with someone at Fox that day. Almost immediately she was off to Santorini, Greece for the songwriting camp. By all accounts it went well.

I think at this point she may have begun seeing some royalty checks for songs from Listen Up! used for various purposes or played as piped music (many of the songs are still in currently rotation).

If she had to pay for much of the promotion around Listen Up! from her advance, this might be the first time she felt like she was truly making money from her music.

By way of contrast, she probably didn't make much at all from those dates at Room 5 or the Hotel Cafe.

In July, Haley was at the Kaua’i Music Festival Songwriter Conference as a songwriting instructor. There she interacted with relatively unknown musicians who wanted to get better at their craft. She indicated this event had been something she was unsure about but it turned out to be wonderful experience. She seemed at peace.

In August, she was "Back in the studio w the fabuloso Mike Elizondo" and "Feeling enlightened." He has filled many roles and worked in many genres. I think he may have advised her on how the industry works and cautioned her not to think of herself as just a singer.

Sometime in early summer she had dinner with the head of A&R at Warner Bros who had been at Santorini. They don't follow one another on Twitter though. In September there was another Ole songwriting camp where they were crafting songs to be pitched to Rihanna.

Alright, there have been some other performances including the StageIt with Casey and the Chicago Theatre with Mayfield, but I'm not going to recap them all.

But I will note that relatively recently Haley's friend Bonx spent a month in India songwriting and had tweeted to Haley the Billboard cover story on SIA. That story outlined how she wrote hits for big poppy stars and used the money to create the music she likes.

Haley has indicated there is new music and she is working on something funky that seems like a major project as the guy helping her spoke of a "journey" together.

When I started this, I didn't intend to go over everything in such detail.

HERE'S THE SYNOPSIS:

- Haley didn't tour in 2012 through no fault of her own
- Haley played a few small venues after being dropped with no big payday
- Haley was writing and recording throughout 2013
- Haley made some bank in 2013 from Fox International and song royalties
- Haley is growing more confident as a songwriter

NOW PUT YOURSELF IN HALEY'S SHOES

From her perspective...

In 2012, she did little. The album was mostly done by the start of the year. When it finally broke in May, she did a radio tour to promote it. She appeared on Conan, The View and 90210. She was privileged to play Lolla. Everything after that, including Carnegie, was of her own doing.

In 2013, she wrote, recorded and performed more than she did the previous year. She probably became very aware that songwriting could provide an income stream. She seemingly took advantage of some opportunities because they provided an opportunity to travel as well as some income.

But in doing so she made some connections. Cancun with Casey and Bo led to the cruise with Angela and Bo which led to the Rally with Bo...

Now some people might look at that as slacking off.
Why doesn't she hit the road for real, for gosh sakes!

Well, that costs money.

There is no label to foot the bill. Haley would have to pay the band and its travel expenses out of her own pocket.

Would that be the best course of action? Countless musicians have taken that route but few break through. She's surrounded now by a circle of musician friends in LA she no doubt respects but they remain relatively unknown to others.

Haley already has some name recognition and her distinctive voice.

So wouldn't she be better off using her limited resources to finance studio time (and her funky-ass reality project)?

I think so.

Because her resources really are limited. There's not a big budget behind the funky-ass reality project.

Now for longtime fans it's frustrating to know she has new songs but hasn't released them.

But you must keep in mind that releasing them herself is Plan B.

Fewer people are thinking of Haley now than when her album was released. She is unlikely to sell enough songs to support herself. And releasing them now would be giving away the crown jewels she bought with her own hard work.

Those songs are meant to interest a label. Because if she can get them to back one song and it becomes a hit, she'll get the support she needs to tour and promote herself.

I'll speculate and say the funky-ass reality project is a means to theme the whole album/EP. If she has to release the songs herself it might serve as a means to build buzz and wider recognition (that might attract a label).

In short, I believe Haley has been working and she's trying to be smart and leverage what she has to work with.

She's doing it all herself with the help of some friends, and possibly a bit of paid help, so it's not going to be as expedient as we all would like.

[Babbs234]

I like your thinking Miguel. And don't forget BG days from August last year. That was a paycheck and some recognition for Haley also.

[Haleylvr4evr]

I agree with your comments. I do believe the funky reality project is something that will benefit her career. It might be unrelated to a new album or tour but even if it is, at least she is happy and having fun which is all that matters right?

And we all know she is working hard to create a masterpiece album we can all be proud of!! It might be taking a bit longer than expected but sometimes the best things in life need a little patitence ( probably spelled wrong).

[Babbs234]

I do think if there was some communication with her fans, then people wouldn't be as frustrated. After all, most of the information that is collected here, does not come from Haley, but from friends and acquaintances, like the recent photo from dannig.

If you go on twitter, there are a lot of AI alums that are on twitter daily. Just "shooting the breeze". It would make the waiting for news go by so much faster if Haley would say hello once in a while.

[alpha7388]

I think you are correct about the big picture in this saga Miguel.

As we discuss who she should sing with, tour with, what types of songs she should record, whether she should sell them to other artists, what WE all think she should do etc., we have to remember a girl's gotta eat!

If she were to join Lucent Dossier Experience for a time, it might be funky and reflect the reality of the competition in the music business. But can you imagine how fun that would be for a young woman with all those friends traveling and performing? It could be she sings a new song on TV with LDE spectacle backing her. It could be a video, Haley swinging through the air on wires (a'la Pink), which would probably rival all others. Whatever she does, we are behind her and wishing her all the best.

Its the journey.

When's teh next bf vine?

[Tusk]

I think Haley's resources might be more than you think, although I concur, even if she hides it, Interscope had to be a shock in every way, so there had to be a period of reflection and adjustment.

Living in LA is probably not cheap, and we've seen posts explaining that many times artists have to pay venues, guarantee numbers to be able to perform at Gigs. I think Haley's have been paying gigs, but it illustrates that it's not simply getting on the phone and having someone clear dates for you.... If you're not paying someone to negotiate/find work for you, it's up to you, so yes, these MAJOR decisions/projects, 'tour' 'LP', someone's got to do it, if not, then it's you.

Ana Free ‏@anafree 6h
These festivals and contests that we as artists have to pay for to enter. We have to pay our way into a basic opportunity. #smh #grindon

You might recall, I have posted about a Portugese 'Youtube' artist I followed before getting on the Haley train. Her name is Ana Free, through a set of people in LA, she might have met Haley. She knows and works w/ Nina Storey who knows Haley and was in Casey's "Stuck in London", fireside video.

When I followed Ana, she was just graduating college, 19 yrs old and performed bars and small venues in Europe, mostly around Portugal or London. I think she signed a deal with some small outfit, put out at least two albums, sold iTunes....

So she is in LA now. and about Haley's age. I follow her on Twitter, I am truly amazed at how present she is in her own self promotion, she has a website that is sort of like Kickstarter, people sponsor(donate) while she posts videos of the process, sends them small tokens/memoriabilia, give them shout outs......then posts the final video that they helped make. She also markets herself by merchandising her 'brand', as well as does many Stageit shows. Though she has been touring heavily all this time I had lost track of her, til recently, so she is battle tested as a live performer in different languages on different continents.

She goes back and forth from the States to Europe to perform and record, so unless she or her parents are wealthy and are funding her career, I have to imagine she has a very efficient mechanism working for her.

I find that what I liked about her years ago, is not what she is now, so I'm not drawn to her as I was, but wish the best for a highly intelligent, motivated, talented young woman. Nevertheless, I envy the girl's drive and wish Haley might somehow befriend Ana, maybe Ana can give her some pointers on how to promote yourself in the 21st Century recording world. I really don't know much about her beyond my peripheral interest, I don't know if she's signed to anyone, if that's contributing to her set-up. The point is, this kind of grass roots strategy can be done, taking advantage of internet resources to extend your brand, creating revenue streams...

Ana draws from a fan base that extends beyond American borders. We see examples of Haley being heard in many countries, "Undone" through the Step Up franchise has given it extra reach, overseas. I've Always contended she may well be best appreciated overseas before she is noticed in the States. Haley has that global marketing potential that, if organised correctly, can fund her to be able to do whatever her creative heart desires ....

I've kind of held off on posting about Ana recently, embarrassingly because I didn't want to set up a 'comparison/contrast' situation. But I figure it's relevant here, because it shows just what one person, making the right connections/decisions can do for themselves.

(Granted, I have no knowledge of her income,whether they are that great at all, I have no actual knowledge of the total size of her fan base, just that she works hard and uses many available resources to promote her brand and increasing her revenue potential)

That's not to say Haley is 'lacking' anything, bottom line is we, all of us, are very strong in certain things, alternately, we also have the potential to be clueless about things others might view as obvious. Ana is a strong musician while, IMO not as strong a vocalist nor song writer than Haley who seems uninterested in playing any intstruments . Ana appears to be promotion and technology savy, while Haley? Not so much

Each their strengths, their tools.

Also, factored in, practically giving away 'the jewels', releasing her songs on iTunes, we all know full wells the diminishing returns those in many entertainment fields see now, due to technologies, it's not the money making machine it might have once been. From Software Designers to Indie's selling iTunes. Easy enough to download/copy. She has to wade into unfamiliar waters to get her bearings so she can chart her direction

Haley is extra ordinary in certain things, that she is now delving into things that may have career long ramifications, you can't blame the girl if she proceeds with caution and perhaps (too) tentatively (given her Interscope experience, the highs and the lows)

PS Miguel, You got nothing on me when it comes to long posts

[midnightblues]

Im still on board the for the long haul, my hope is that some that got tired of waiting and jumped ship will finish the voyage and see Hales for what she has done, and who she really is.

[Miguel]

John Notto ‏@johnnotto 5h

Demos are soooo over. Your shit better come out of you bedroom already shrink wrapped, or on an iTunes download card.

[Himm2]

I'm confident this lull in activity is simply hiding something until all the ducks are in a row.

Like Tusk with Ana Free, I was a big supporter of former Idol Leslie Hunt before I knew of Haley Reinhart. Though Leslie won't be as big of a star as Haley the paths seem similar with similar backgrounds...both are from musical families (mom a singer, dad musician), both Chicago area, both with blonde younger sisters as their only sibling (although Leslie's died the night before Leslie's wedding) both with Jazz & scatting backgrounds, both have close friends that they were on Idol with (Leslie + Gina Glockson) (Haley + Casey), both good songwriters.
So after Leslie had the backing of Sony she released an album with great songs but it didn't meet sales expectations and was dropped. She went thru a dark quiet period gathering songs for two new albums, the first of which seemed to take forever to get released after all the work was done partly because she had to do it on her own with her own self-made label. "Your Hair Is On Fire" had reasonable success followed by "Wait For It". She is now actively touring as the lead singer for "District 97" (like Keith, John, Courtney) and the "Ken Arlen Orchestra" (like NOJO) and the "Ides of March" (yes from the 70's like Midnight) as well as many weekly gigs around Chicago 7 years removed from Idol.
There's no question that Haley Reinhart will be the force to be reckoned with that all her supporters expected. It's just a matter of timing, backing & promotion to achieve better results than Interscope was willing to devote.

[rmd1064]

Thanks for the thread. I know this is tough topic for the die-hard Haliens. We so much want her to succeed….(now, please excuse my long post)…

I was watching some of the 2011 Idol tour videos, thinking---this is it for probably almost all of them, the height of their fame. Other than Scotty and maybe Lauren (country stars), the rest may never ever play again in front of 20,000 paying, screaming fans, or have hundreds of fans wait for them after the show. Sometimes, I wonder if that is it for Haley too, but am holding out hope.

For Haley, the show, the AI Tour, signing to Interscope, Lollapalooza, Carnegie Hall, the video “Free”, “Listen Up” release all in about a year’s time must have been a whirlwind. But when the CD did not take off (and we can blame Interscope if we want), the label cut her. Now, she goes from the big leagues to the minors, pretty quickly. As Miguel points out, she does participate in a number of fun and exotic gigs throughout 2013, but those cannot be counted on indefinitely.

So here we are in 2014. And, I wonder, what is next. What I cannot believe is that probably one of the most popular Idol contestants ever, with some of the most downloaded songs and video views, over 200,000 Twitter followers, and international appeal cannot find a place in music today.

Haley right now has to consider herself a new artist, and the only way new artists seem to break through these days is through social media. Lorde, Justin Bieber, and so many others started on YouTube, etc, and broke through. The days of a label signing an artist and patiently waiting for years and years for them to develop is over. (Or as John Notto says, you better have your own Itunes Download card ready to go to get a deal…) Even Idol and these other shows are not launching people long term like they once did (see Kris Allen, Lee DeWyze, David Cook, Candace Glover, Jessica Sanchez, Pia, etc) unless it seems you are a country star.

Now having said how tough it is out there today, the Internet has also opened up many more opportunities for artists to bypass labels and create their own music and brands and deal directly with their fans. Tusk points out how friend Anna as trying to utilize such tools. I also discussed such a model here on this Forum via a NY Times article (here is link) that discusses how bands are using a subscription service model to get $2-5 a month to support them. For the monthly fee (easily paid through a one-time set up on PayPal), the band posts one new MP3 song a month, provides blog updates, videos, essays, photos, and other information. Now if Haley could get a 2000 fans (or 1% of her Twitter followers) to pay $5 a month, that is $120,000 a year. That is a lot of money and could provide the foundation for whatever she wants to do next.

And, based on everything I have read, the only real way a musician makes a living is to tour and sell merchandise (as Himm2 points out with his friend Leslie). In this digital world, songs are so easily copied that you can’t count on much from that. I just wish Haley would commit to fronting a band and going out on the road. Start small with a handful of dates if needed, but clearly she can do a 1.5 hour show (see Buffalo Grove, Okinawa) that will blow people’s socks off. Build word of mouth and the people will come and buy CDs and T-shirts! And, I don’t think a label is going to sign her unless she demonstrates that she can front a band and tour to promote a CD (see ZZ Ward).I am holding out hope that all of this silence and no real music performance bookings are a sign that she is clearing her calendar for something like that.

But after all of this pessimistic meandering, I will leave you with this: Haley is just 23. She is still so very young and so talented that you feel like something is bound to happen. I agree with Himm2 that this is just a lull for now, and she does have the fire and desire to make something happen. As she said, there is no Plan B. I don’t even care about hit songs on the radio, I just want her to keep making music and go out on the road and build a long lasting and loyal fan base. If something big happens for her, great, but I just want her to be around a long time making incredible and memorable music…..