CHFIL vs Undone discussion

[Tusk]

I expected you'd understand "water and oil" in that context was a way of saying "water paint and oil paints"... But I think you knew that, you just had to be Buzz I guess....

I think you understand what I'm trying to say, your post doesn't still take into account that, as an artist, Haley draws from different sources to express the emotions in the songs she sings.

I don't know how to explain it any clearer than that Haley has said, not up to speculation, that Undone puts her into a place that makes it difficult for her, so therefore she doesn't like to sing it. Who are we to tell her that she's wrong?

[airhigh]

"Undone" is a hauntingly beautiful song about love lost. CHFIL is a hauntingly beautiful song about love found. "So Far From Heaven" has the IT factor, as well, and would be a hauntingly beautiful song about the internecine embroilment always found between the two extremes. Imagine, get it, the emotional appeal of those three songs on one EP. It would have the potential to blow up the charts. Haley has the arrows she just needs to pull three and aim for the hearts. Jojo can never do "So Far From Heaven" justice and it need to be stripped down and organic like CHFIL, at least IMOA. But then what do I know except I'm with Haley in anyway she wants to traverse the musical highway.

[riley]

"hauntingly beautiful". But then what do I know except I'm with Haley in anyway she wants to traverse the musical highway.

Amen.....

[Miguel]

Undone pulls from a different emotional well, one that Haley has said more than once, she is not particularly comfotable with, even said she needed help writing it.

My sense is Haley doesn't feel like she contributed much on the writing side of "Undone" and doesn't like to perform it because she doesn't feel a sense of ownership. Once she completed the promo tour, she pretty much shied away from "Free" too.

Haley consciously thinks about creating a "body of work" that represents her abilities as an artist. This is understandable given the high level of respect she has for what others other singer-songwriters have produced.

Covers are a different animal because they aren't originally attached to her name. They invite comparisons and give her a way to show off her vocal abilities by way of contrast. Plus, good songs are just fun to sing.

[Tusk]

Yup, even though she has writing credit, I seem to recall that it was Interscope's idea to put an "Undone"-like song on Listen Up! which 'forced' her into a place she wasn't comfortable with, requiring help to complete it.

At the 2nd private party, during the break, Rachel told us that she saw that Undone was on the set list. I was hoping that Haley would do it, since I wasn't able to record the first time I'd heard her sing it live.

When they came back from the break, Haley told us that she got a request to sing "Night and Day", which wasn't on the set list. We eventually noticed that Undone was skipped over, possibly for "Night and Day"... so when it came to the final songs, people from the crowd started yelling out "Undone" ('people' as in, not only the Haliens who were there)... even then, Haley hemmed and hawed, looked over to Keith who nodded back to her, asked if it was OK? I think it was Harry that finally said they would do it....
(I believe the hosts helped put together the set list, they asked them to do "Can't Find My Way Home", so "Undone" might have been on the set list, per their request)

[Kevin]

Yup, even though she has writing credit, I seem to recall that it was Interscope's idea to put an "Undone"-like song on Listen Up! which 'forced' her into a place she wasn't comfortable with, requiring help to complete it.

At the 2nd private party, during the break, Rachel told us that she saw that Undone was on the set list. I was hoping that Haley would do it, since I wasn't able to record the first time I'd heard her sing it live.

When they came back from the break, Haley told us that she got a request to sing "Night and Day", which wasn't on the set list. We eventually noticed that Undone was skipped over, possibly for "Night and Day"... so when it came to the final songs, people from the crowd started yelling out "Undone" ('people' as in, not only the Haliens who were there)... even then, Haley hemmed and hawed, looked over to Keith who nodded back to her, asked if it was OK? I think it was Harry that finally said they would do it....
(I believe the hosts helped put together the set list, they asked them to do "Can't Find My Way Home", so "Undone" might have been on the set list, per their request)

Water and oil aside, I've always felt it was a beautiful song that went to a place where we all have been. People enjoy music for the emotions and memories it evokes and the places; past, present, and future, it can take us. I get that the artist in her doesn't like to go to the place it takes her. However, from a business point, I think it could have been a hit. It touches, very well, that sad place we all go to now and then.

[XAtlantic]

My sense is Haley doesn't feel like she contributed much on the writing side of "Undone" and doesn't like to perform it because she doesn't feel a sense of ownership.

That's an interesting thought. I can see how that might be the case.

I also always wondered whether the emotional view point of the song, loss and hurt, open vulnerability, is a mismatch for how Haley feels or wants to feel when she faces the public - she does like fiercer, more self-confident songs even when hurt is involved. Though I wouldn't be able to say whether it would be because she's not inclined to feel so vulnerable, or because she actually does deep down but won't show it. But that is already too far into the territory of speculations, where many fancy things live and little truth ...

I personally agree with Tusk, though, that the emotional state of Undone and CHFIL are pretty different and can't be compared, not just because one is about loss and one about something happening. Undone is a song about being lost, opposite to all the others - even LIWFF has fight in the title.

[buzzenator]

I expected you'd understand "water and oil" in that context was a way of saying "water paint and oil paints"... But I think you knew that, you just had to be Buzz I guess....

I think you understand what I'm trying to say, your post doesn't still take into account that, as an artist, Haley draws from different sources to express the emotions in the songs she sings.

I don't know how to explain it any clearer than that Haley has said, not up to speculation, that Undone puts her into a place that makes it difficult for her, so therefore she doesn't like to sing it. Who are we to tell her that she's wrong?

Tsk Tsk

I think I understand what you are trying to say? Buzz said: Haley is wrong!

Please...are we really into right and wrong opinions on a fan site? We've had this discussion many times before...

Yup, even though she has writing credit, I seem to recall that it was Interscope's idea to put an "Undone"-like song on Listen Up! which 'forced' her into a place she wasn't comfortable with, requiring help to complete it.

Wow...poor little Haley, so taken advantage of...forced to sing a song on her first record that took her to such a horrible place. Is this your story? I seem to recall that Haley didn't like the repetitive lyrics of singing the word Undone so many times. It just might be it is not one of her favorites to sing. I can understand that.

It still has nothing to do with my original comment that you are parsing so meticulously. The emotional reaction of the listener to her voice in these songs, whether hurt or happiness, rejection or love, affects the listener in a similar way...which then causes her fans to want more of the same.

I can see your viewpoint...but you are unable to see mine. But then that's just you being Tusk.

Water and oil aside, I've always felt it was a beautiful song that went to a place where we all have been. People enjoy music for the emotions and memories it evokes and the places; past, present, and future, it can take us. I get that the artist in her doesn't like to go to the place it takes her. However, from a business point, I think it could have been a hit. It touches, very well, that sad place we all go to now and then.

This is Halien feedback that every artist would like to have from their fanbase to realize what is profitable for their career. Sing what you want, but hopefully you'll sing what they want...

[JMT]

I'm coming down Buzz on this topic. I can completely understand her reluctance to sing Undone because of a lack of 'ownership' or 'this isn't my style' (especially on a first album where she's trying to establish herself). And perhaps she feels she didn't feel the right emotion (I'm an oldish guy who isn't qualified to dissect the different emotions of the two songs ) to properly sing it.

However, she was PAID to sing Elvis at the direction of 'Make me cry'. While she didn't write the words, she brought the emotion they aimed for. I'm sure the Ad Agency felt she could do that because of Creep and other songs-- maybe Undone and I Who Have Nothing. If Haley felt (or still feels) that Undone wasn't 'her' type of song, then neither was this project IMO-- no matter how you slice and dice the emotional feelings.

Obviously no one involved in the project knew it would blow up the way it did, least of all Haley. To me this should be an eye opener for Haley (and Ole and her advisers) from the perspective of getting more recognition, accolades, door openings, etc. These types of songs connect with her fan base and future (hopefully large) fan base. Haley Reinhart IS a business now, and it may be that these types of songs are the money makers that afford her the luxury to make 'her' type of music (whatever that may be-- personnally I'm not sure what that is yet).

As I said on the other thread-- Ole call Hollywood!!

[NUG]

I think part of the reason Haley never bonded with Undone (other than what she said in interviews, that it's not something she personally had experienced at the time it was written-that level of heartbreak)- is that right when it could have taken off due to movie exposure and fan approval, she was going through her own heartbreak. Breaking up with her label and the dream they would support her creativity, and a possible boyfriend breakup (Stefano). I think she didn't like singing that song because she's a very strong woman who identifies more with "I threw your ring into the ocean" (see Tusk, I know where you're coming from too), rather than heartbreak and "nothing but emptiness inside".

I just think there's a chance for her to convey that tenderness and pulling of heartstrings of love and love lost in both songs, which she does beautifully with that amazing ability to go between regular singing and head voice / falsetto, it's just perfect for a ballad to convey crying a tear and a love laid bare whether it's through heartbreak or falling in love. Her warm honey whiskey voice is so so good for ballads.